So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

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Les Bean
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Les Bean » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Right or wrong(and I think in this instance they are wrong btw), honest statements are to be applauded, especially in an arena where they are a rarity

Jimgym
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:02 pm

Les Bean wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:35 pm
Right or wrong(and I think in this instance they are wrong btw), honest statements are to be applauded, especially in an arena where they are a rarity
Applauded? 🤣Certainly not!

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panoscouse
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by panoscouse » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:40 pm

Jimgward wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:44 pm
Jimgym wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:12 pm
Jimgward wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:57 pm
Latest polls say that 70% of people are against a hard-Brexit - democracy anyone?

Also, HAD the referendum been legal, rather than advisory, it would have been declared void due to illegalities. Since it was only advisory, the courts couldn't Take those steps. May treated it as legal, as does Boris.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... and-no-cor
That's the winner of the most-stupid polls contest! Corbyn isn't even in the discussion by people. Most labour voters don't want him, so bringing him into an argument on leave, is simply subterfuge to paper over cracks.
Yet the VAST majority of Labour members voted for Jeremy Corbin as leader. TWICE.
I do wish you centrists would realise the days of blairite policies are rejected by the majority of the uk population.
Either you have the right wing Johnson policies and all that entails or the left wing (your words not mine) of Jeremy Corbin.

The future is always defined by the youth and so it should be.

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Jimgward
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgward » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:57 pm

What makes you think most people don't want centrist policies? There isn’t a shred of evidence...

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panoscouse
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by panoscouse » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:15 pm

The shred of evidence is the amount of members enlisted to the Labour party since Jeremy Corbyn (with the help of said members) became leader. Ignore it at your peril. Or joint the Lib Dems like your predecessors.
Back your Democratic leader or leave.

Les Bean
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Les Bean » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:18 am

Jimgym wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:02 pm
Les Bean wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:35 pm
Right or wrong(and I think in this instance they are wrong btw), honest statements are to be applauded, especially in an arena where they are a rarity
Applauded? 🤣Certainly not!
Honest statements not to be applauded 😞. Are dishonest ones to be then???

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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:01 am

Les Bean wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:18 am
Jimgym wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:02 pm
Les Bean wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:35 pm
Right or wrong(and I think in this instance they are wrong btw), honest statements are to be applauded, especially in an arena where they are a rarity
Applauded? 🤣Certainly not!
Honest statements not to be applauded 😞. Are dishonest ones to be then???
That is entirely your choice, as is applauding those who wish to ignore democracy.

Les Bean
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Les Bean » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:55 am

Not at all. I am saying that honest statements as opposed to lies should be applauded, not commenting on the content of those statements. You seem to think the opposite.

Jimgym
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:15 pm

Les Bean wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:55 am
Not at all. I am saying that honest statements as opposed to lies should be applauded, not commenting on the content of those statements. You seem to think the opposite.
Part of your sentence is correct, I do think yes.

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Jimgward
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgward » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:45 pm

panoscouse wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:15 pm
The shred of evidence is the amount of members enlisted to the Labour party since Jeremy Corbyn (with the help of said members) became leader. Ignore it at your peril. Or joint the Lib Dems like your predecessors.
Back your Democratic leader or leave.
Labour has what, 485,000 members - the Conservatives 180,000, SNP 125,000, Lib Dems 115,000

Am I to assume, that SNP policies are favoured by more people in the UK, than Lib-Dem policies, because they have more members? Nonsense

Jim B
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jim B » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:36 pm

I found the below article relating to the influence the media had on the referendum result that was written in the Financial Times an interesting read.

Jim

https://www.ft.com/content/ffdb6e8c-c5c ... 6ca66511c9

Firefly
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Firefly » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:34 pm

I couldn't read it.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Jimgym
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:05 pm

Wouldn’t let me read it without subscribing Jim.

Jim B
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jim B » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:01 pm

Jimgym wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:05 pm
Wouldn’t let me read it without subscribing Jim.
That's strange Alan, I don't subscribe.

Basically it was saying that since the boycott of the Sun on Merseyside after Hillsborough the view on the EU changed from being negative to positive which gave 58% in favour of remaining against 42% who voted to Leave. The researchers suggested that most Sun readers switched to the Daily Mirror which supports Remain and also put forward the theory that if the same boycott of the Sun had happened in London most readers would have switched to the Daily Mail and quite possibly London would have voted Leave.
The research showed that people are influenced by the media rather than making objective decisions themselves.
I will try and fine the article and copy and paste.

Jim

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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:04 pm

Interesting reading Jim. I for one am grateful that the people of Merseyside still boycott that turd of a newspaper after the disgusting lies they printed. Sorry slightly off topic there. If you could copy and paste that would be great. Thanks.

jeba
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by jeba » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:24 pm

The following is the deepl.com translation of an article from a German news-website (https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Englands ... 25001.html) I came across today. Seems as far as the automotive industry is concerned quite a few predictions have come true already.
James Bond pushes the gas pedal of an Aston Martin again in 2020. But the British car industry could already be history. More and more manufacturers are laying off employees and closing factories. How did this happen?

Since last year, car production in England has been in reverse. In the first half of 2019, a new low was reached with 666,000 cars, a decline of one fifth compared to the same period last year. Only about two months before the Brexit, the situation for the industry continues to deteriorate.

No wonder. Since the vote in June 2016, the investments of automobile manufacturers and their suppliers have fallen by 80 percent. Honda closes its only plant in Swindon and turns its back on the island forever until 2021; 3500 jobs are lost, thousands more at suppliers and service companies. Nissan, the largest car manufacturer in England with 7,000 direct employees and a major employer in the weak Sunderland region, begins to relocate parts of its production to Japan. In 1984 Nissan - like the other Japanese manufacturers - moved to the island because Britain was seen as a stepping stone into the EU single market. But a good 30 years later, Sunderland, the impoverished industrial city in the north-east of England, had voted for Brexit with 61 percent.

Toyota, the third major Japanese carmaker on the island, has announced that it will "review its location" in Burnaston by early 2020. These three Japanese manufacturers alone account for half of the total English automobile production. The situation is made more difficult by the fact that all Japanese supplier companies are on the verge of a leap.
Savings programs at all locations
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Investment check 21.08.19
Investment check How Brexit is burdening the financial markets

But the rest of the industry is also on the lookout. Mini, BMW's automobile subsidiary and the third-largest manufacturer on the island, is planning closures and relocation of production to South Africa. Jaguar Land Rover, which was rescued from bankruptcy in 2008 by Indian steel magnate Ratan Tata and has since risen to become the new star of the British car industry under German management, has announced a massive austerity program and the elimination of 4500 of the 9100 jobs.

At the same time, Jaguar has massively built up capacity in the EU country Slovenia. Ford is shutting down parts of its engine production and wants to "rethink" its future in the UK as well. PSA boss Carlos Tavares has threatened the withdrawal of Opel Astra production from the Vauxhall plant in Ellesmere Port and its relocation to Southern Europe in the event of a hard Brexit; this would be the end for the location - and for many suppliers all around. Major suppliers such as ZF, Schäffler and Michelin are already closing, others will follow.

The end of the British automotive industry, more precisely: the automotive industry in Great Britain, is approaching with great strides. A "hard" Brexit without a free trade agreement with the EU is destroying the automotive location Great Britain. It becomes unprofitable, because the car industry is heavily dependent on exports. Every year, around 80 percent of cars are exported, more than 60 percent of them to Europe. Conversely, 80 percent of all supplier parts are imported from Europe, some of which cross the channel up to five times in finishing traffic. The introduction of WTO customs tariffs of ten percent would deprive Great Britain of its basis for profitability: Export cars would become about 3000 euros more expensive, and supplier parts would have to be imported at higher costs.

Everything used to be different. The most beautiful and valuable cars in Great Britain were built for auto-aesthetes over decades. Rolls Royce, Bentley, Triumph, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Marin, MG - all icons of automotive history. A Jaguar XK 150 already has more than 250 HP and disc brakes in 1958. And the Aston Martin DB5 (1963-1965) became the company car of James Bond, with which he saved the world in the service of Her Majesty with 300 HP and four litres cubic capacity (1964 "Goldfinger"; 1965 "Feuerball").

This era of mostly eccentric automotive engineering came to an end with EU accession in 1973 at the latest. More and more imported cars with better quality and technology pushed their way to the island in the mass segment, and the import quota rose from 7 to 33 percent. In German motorist circles, in connection with the British Leyland car group, people only spoke of "British misery" or of the need to buy a Jaguar only in a package of two: a car for the road, one as a spare parts store or as a workshop car.

British automakers, children of the Empire, have never learned to seek customers on the world market, at best to serve them mercifully. What remained were small exclusive sports car manufacturers - and the eccentric itself

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Happy in Cyprus
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:20 am

Let's print the important parts of that in red, so that even Brexiteers get the gist of what is being said:

Ford is shutting down parts of its engine production and wants to "rethink" its future in the UK as well. PSA boss Carlos Tavares has threatened the withdrawal of Opel Astra production from the Vauxhall plant in Ellesmere Port and its relocation to Southern Europe in the event of a hard Brexit; this would be the end for the location - and for many suppliers all around. Major suppliers such as ZF, Schäffler and Michelin are already closing, others will follow.

The end of the British automotive industry, more precisely: the automotive industry in Great Britain, is approaching with great strides. A "hard" Brexit without a free trade agreement with the EU is destroying the automotive location Great Britain. It becomes unprofitable, because the car industry is heavily dependent on exports. Every year, around 80 percent of cars are exported, more than 60 percent of them to Europe. Conversely, 80 percent of all supplier parts are imported from Europe, some of which cross the channel up to five times in finishing traffic. The introduction of WTO customs tariffs of ten percent would deprive Great Britain of its basis for profitability: Export cars would become about 3000 euros more expensive, and supplier parts would have to be imported at higher costs.


So Brexiteers, how do you respond to that? Not what you were telling us just a year or two ago, is it?

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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jim B » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:25 am

I saw this one yesterday, 98 Companies have moved to the Netherlands with another 325 Companies in talks on relocating.

Jim

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/08/b ... therlands/

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kingfisher
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by kingfisher » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:14 am

Keep trying you lot- I think you’re wasting your time. If you think you’re going to pull off some Ben Stokes “victory from the jaws of defeat”, and somehow reverse the will of the majority, you’re going to be disappointed!
I’ve just bought more shares in Kleenex.
Jon.

Les Bean
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Les Bean » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:34 am

That's not an answer to the question asked by hic though is it?

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