No, because remain means keeping the status quo. People know what that is. People didn't know what leave was. Now they do.
ish
By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
It’s looking much more likely for this ‘people’s vote’ now - as it’s unlikely parliament will do their ‘sovereign duty’ and decide all this.
It’s a joke that some leavers claimed this was about ‘getting back our sovereign rights’ - this entire situation proves we always had them....
It’s a joke that some leavers claimed this was about ‘getting back our sovereign rights’ - this entire situation proves we always had them....
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
I think 17.5M ish people may disagree with you!
Shane
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
Why? What would you be voting for? Really? Are you seriously trying to suggest it should be "Best out of 3?" Besides, what would have changed between the second vote and the third vote? Nothing.
Compare that to the change between the first vote and a second vote.
Compare that to the change between the first vote and a second vote.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
So, what you are saying is that a second vote should be the casting vote? Hardly seems fair or democratic really IMO! If, as some argue, a second vote is the democratic will of the people then what's to stop that democratic will demanding a third one if there is enough support? It becomes a never ending spiral and all the time this is going on the UK sits in economic limbo?
The only thing I know for sure out of all this is that roughly half the electorate will be upset whichever way it turns out!
Shane
The only thing I know for sure out of all this is that roughly half the electorate will be upset whichever way it turns out!
Shane
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
Well. if there is enough will, then sure, why not? But why would there be? What will have changed? There is no point voting for the same thing twice if nothing changes in between votes. People aren't going to change their mind when nothing has changed, are they?
Well that is a better state of affairs than the current situation, where none of the remainers like Brexit and only a minority of leavers like what's on offer.The only thing I know for sure out of all this is that roughly half the electorate will be upset whichever way it turns out!
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
Well that is a better state of affairs than the current situation, where none of the remainers like Brexit and only a minority of leavers like what's on offer.
Where are the facts to back up this statement. All my friends who voted for BREXIT are delighted with the results so fay. Certainly one or two said that it would have been better to have had a HARD BREXIT.
Where are the facts to back up this statement. All my friends who voted for BREXIT are delighted with the results so fay. Certainly one or two said that it would have been better to have had a HARD BREXIT.
All things are possible
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/f ... exit-deal/
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... rexit-deal
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... rexit-deal
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
-
Robert
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:58 pm
- Location: South East England (for a few more months)
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
But what about those that come after you? If this passes or we Brexit then that drawbridge will be pulled up on them. Instead of a right to freedom of movement they'll be applying as third country nationals with all the requirements that go with that.
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
The EU has cost Britain less than .4% of it’s GDP
Already, we have lost an estimated £200bn since the Leave vote was passed and it’s estimated our GDP will be affected by as much as 5%......
Goodness, and there was me thinking it would be bad
Already, we have lost an estimated £200bn since the Leave vote was passed and it’s estimated our GDP will be affected by as much as 5%......
Goodness, and there was me thinking it would be bad
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
From The Metro
https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/28/no-deal- ... 0-8186422/
No-deal Brexit could cut UK GDP by nearly 10%
Withdrawal from the European Union under the Government’s plans could cut the UK’s GDP by up to 3.9% over the next 15 years, according to new official figures.
But leaving without a deal could deliver a 9.3% hit to GDP over the same period, said the analysis produced by departments across Whitehall.
And the UK will be poorer in economic terms under any version of Brexit, compared with staying in the EU.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/28/no-deal- ... 0-8186422/
No-deal Brexit could cut UK GDP by nearly 10%
Withdrawal from the European Union under the Government’s plans could cut the UK’s GDP by up to 3.9% over the next 15 years, according to new official figures.
But leaving without a deal could deliver a 9.3% hit to GDP over the same period, said the analysis produced by departments across Whitehall.
And the UK will be poorer in economic terms under any version of Brexit, compared with staying in the EU.
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
Hi,Well,I purchased my house and car(Duty free,V plates,remember them?)done immigration for residential rights and various other things-all pre EU,so in answer to Robert,been there,done that,so let,s get this Brexit agreement passed,it,s the best were going to get,and from an ex-pats point of view,hardly anything will change,except of course the exchange rate should rise to where it should be.
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
Well, Tonee, yu might be an optimist, but I’d read this latest FT article for a bit of bitter reality...
https://www.ft.com/content/94185c52-ecb ... f212677a57
https://www.ft.com/content/94185c52-ecb ... f212677a57
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
HIi Jim,Have to subscribe to read this,are you suggesting the pound versus euro will not change?
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
The Brexit road to Britain’s collapse
The gradual journey to withdrawal has become a sudden leap for clarity and conclusion
How did you go bankrupt, asks a character in the Hemingway novel The Sun Also Rises. Two ways, comes the reply: “Gradually, and then suddenly.” Gradually and suddenly is the story of Brexit. The 2016 vote to quit the EU has drained Britain of energy, purpose and international influence. It happened gradually. Many people have not noticed. Now, suddenly, the end is in view. It may well turn out to be something worse than bankruptcy.
Across Whitehall, committees of civil servants are hurriedly preparing contingency plans against a national emergency. The National Health Service warns it could run out of drugs. Aircraft may be grounded, bank trading rooms shut down. The port of Dover, the vital entry point for food imports, could grind to a halt. Supermarkets say their shelves would empty within days. These are just a sample of the costs were Britain to crash out of the EU without a deal.
Across the road at Westminster, politics seems oblivious. Hardline Conservative MPs have been collecting signatures to force a vote of confidence in their own prime minister. The EU departure deal negotiated by Theresa May, these Kamikaze Brexiters declare, would imprison Britain as “a vassal state”. Better, they conclude, to try to put one of their own in No 10, wave two fingers at Brussels and crash out of the union when the Article 50 clock stops at the end of March 2019. Britain, they say, has stood alone before.
Albeit from a different vantage point, the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn shares the loathing for the European project. Mr Corbyn, more interested in fighting the international fight against US-led western imperialism than in what is happening in Britain, holds the EU to be a capitalist conspiracy against the workers. Really. The Brexiters are trapped in their nostalgia for empire; Mr Corbyn in his 1970s revolutionary socialism.
If all this were not so deadly serious it would be laughably absurd. In truth, the big danger is of the absurdity obscuring the seriousness. Britain is dismantling an economic and political relationship with its own continent that has been more than 40 years in the making. EU membership is woven into the fabric of the nation. It has been a vital pillar of foreign policy. Brexit means Brexit, Mrs May said a while ago. Her own party has yet to agree on what she meant.
There have been other peacetime crises. The Tory prime minister Edward Heath’s fight with the trade unions forced industry to operate a three-day week during the early 1970s. Ministers exhorted voters to clean their teeth in the dark to save energy. A few years later, the country faced bankruptcy as the Labour prime minister James Callaghan battled with his cabinet about an IMF austerity programme. A winter of industrial strife later mapped the path to Margaret Thatcher’s election victory and the 1980s economic revolution.
Now, suddenly, the end is in view. It may well turn out to be something worse than bankruptcy
Brexit is of an altogether different order. The referendum divided the nations of the UK union and the communities within them. It has breathed life into an ugly English nationalism and handed a new grievance to Scottish separatists. The young voted overwhelmingly to remain. So did Scotland, Northern Ireland, London, the other big English cities and affluent professionals. The elderly and the less well-off in small cities and provincial towns — amounting to a majority in England and Wales — stood on the leave side. The bitterness has not subsided. Parliamentary democracy has been bent out of shape. A majority of MPs backed Remain. Now they are asked to back a deal they believe inimical to the national interest.
Mrs May’s answer is the Brexit package she hopes to finalise at the coming weekend summit with the EU27. In truth, the deal is a bad one. Not, as Brexit fundamentalists would have it, because it ties Britain too closely to the EU. Nor because of the “backstop” to guarantee an open border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. Rather, the accord sacrifices the big advantages of EU membership in a vain attempt to “take back control”. If it means anything, “control” is a capacity to advance the national interest. That will be weakened by Brexit.
The agreement settles only temporarily the economic arrangements. Within a year or two another cliff-edge will loom. And yet . . . As she seeks the support of the House of Commons, Mrs May has one powerful ally. That threat of “suddenly” — of looming chaos at the ports and airports, shortages in the shops, and an economic downturn. You may not like it — you may actually hate it — the prime minister is saying, but the only alternative is a disorderly Brexit. Fudge or chaos? Big business has already rallied to Mrs May’s banner.
The choice, of course, is a false one. Parliament could vote to seek an extension of Article 50 talks and insist the government explore other options. My sense of the politics, though, is that we are indeed approaching a moment of clarification. If they reject Mrs May’s deal, MPs will also put an end to the search for a middle-way, muddle-through Brexit. It will be all or nothing — the status quo or a complete rupture.
In 2016 the UK voted to leave the EU but did not specify where it wanted to go. Now it knows what lies ahead. A second referendum would present a choice of the two destinations. Yes, it would be divisive and bloody. In a fit of self-loathing, voters might even decide to drive over the cliff. But gradually has run its course. Suddenly, Britain must make up its mind.
philip.stephens@ft.com
The gradual journey to withdrawal has become a sudden leap for clarity and conclusion
How did you go bankrupt, asks a character in the Hemingway novel The Sun Also Rises. Two ways, comes the reply: “Gradually, and then suddenly.” Gradually and suddenly is the story of Brexit. The 2016 vote to quit the EU has drained Britain of energy, purpose and international influence. It happened gradually. Many people have not noticed. Now, suddenly, the end is in view. It may well turn out to be something worse than bankruptcy.
Across Whitehall, committees of civil servants are hurriedly preparing contingency plans against a national emergency. The National Health Service warns it could run out of drugs. Aircraft may be grounded, bank trading rooms shut down. The port of Dover, the vital entry point for food imports, could grind to a halt. Supermarkets say their shelves would empty within days. These are just a sample of the costs were Britain to crash out of the EU without a deal.
Across the road at Westminster, politics seems oblivious. Hardline Conservative MPs have been collecting signatures to force a vote of confidence in their own prime minister. The EU departure deal negotiated by Theresa May, these Kamikaze Brexiters declare, would imprison Britain as “a vassal state”. Better, they conclude, to try to put one of their own in No 10, wave two fingers at Brussels and crash out of the union when the Article 50 clock stops at the end of March 2019. Britain, they say, has stood alone before.
Albeit from a different vantage point, the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn shares the loathing for the European project. Mr Corbyn, more interested in fighting the international fight against US-led western imperialism than in what is happening in Britain, holds the EU to be a capitalist conspiracy against the workers. Really. The Brexiters are trapped in their nostalgia for empire; Mr Corbyn in his 1970s revolutionary socialism.
If all this were not so deadly serious it would be laughably absurd. In truth, the big danger is of the absurdity obscuring the seriousness. Britain is dismantling an economic and political relationship with its own continent that has been more than 40 years in the making. EU membership is woven into the fabric of the nation. It has been a vital pillar of foreign policy. Brexit means Brexit, Mrs May said a while ago. Her own party has yet to agree on what she meant.
There have been other peacetime crises. The Tory prime minister Edward Heath’s fight with the trade unions forced industry to operate a three-day week during the early 1970s. Ministers exhorted voters to clean their teeth in the dark to save energy. A few years later, the country faced bankruptcy as the Labour prime minister James Callaghan battled with his cabinet about an IMF austerity programme. A winter of industrial strife later mapped the path to Margaret Thatcher’s election victory and the 1980s economic revolution.
Now, suddenly, the end is in view. It may well turn out to be something worse than bankruptcy
Brexit is of an altogether different order. The referendum divided the nations of the UK union and the communities within them. It has breathed life into an ugly English nationalism and handed a new grievance to Scottish separatists. The young voted overwhelmingly to remain. So did Scotland, Northern Ireland, London, the other big English cities and affluent professionals. The elderly and the less well-off in small cities and provincial towns — amounting to a majority in England and Wales — stood on the leave side. The bitterness has not subsided. Parliamentary democracy has been bent out of shape. A majority of MPs backed Remain. Now they are asked to back a deal they believe inimical to the national interest.
Mrs May’s answer is the Brexit package she hopes to finalise at the coming weekend summit with the EU27. In truth, the deal is a bad one. Not, as Brexit fundamentalists would have it, because it ties Britain too closely to the EU. Nor because of the “backstop” to guarantee an open border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. Rather, the accord sacrifices the big advantages of EU membership in a vain attempt to “take back control”. If it means anything, “control” is a capacity to advance the national interest. That will be weakened by Brexit.
The agreement settles only temporarily the economic arrangements. Within a year or two another cliff-edge will loom. And yet . . . As she seeks the support of the House of Commons, Mrs May has one powerful ally. That threat of “suddenly” — of looming chaos at the ports and airports, shortages in the shops, and an economic downturn. You may not like it — you may actually hate it — the prime minister is saying, but the only alternative is a disorderly Brexit. Fudge or chaos? Big business has already rallied to Mrs May’s banner.
The choice, of course, is a false one. Parliament could vote to seek an extension of Article 50 talks and insist the government explore other options. My sense of the politics, though, is that we are indeed approaching a moment of clarification. If they reject Mrs May’s deal, MPs will also put an end to the search for a middle-way, muddle-through Brexit. It will be all or nothing — the status quo or a complete rupture.
In 2016 the UK voted to leave the EU but did not specify where it wanted to go. Now it knows what lies ahead. A second referendum would present a choice of the two destinations. Yes, it would be divisive and bloody. In a fit of self-loathing, voters might even decide to drive over the cliff. But gradually has run its course. Suddenly, Britain must make up its mind.
philip.stephens@ft.com
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
No, simply that the road ahead may be too rocky for a recovery, that also includes the re-strengthening go the pound.
The last two years has cost me around £20,000 due to the drop in the pounds value, purely caused by Brexit. Many will have suffered even more.
Someone on a British pension, living in Cyprus, will have lost around £3-5k
It has also stifled recovery of housing markets in popular expat destinations, like Cyprus, Spain and the Canaries.
That’s based on a 20% fall in value - even though it has dropped from an artificially high, it should average around 1.30 - 1.35
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
You are comparing two post-referendum figures there. I think everybody knows Jim was referring to Pre vs Post referendum prices.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
It is not even worth arguing about it. It is just blatant revisionism to claim that this particular decline was due to anything other than the referendum result.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
Wasn't there a bank crash in 2008 that caused the pound to go into free fall?
Re: By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....
Ronk, I may have been slightly high, with 20% - but it is at least 15% average difference Pre referendum noise to post. Even so, I have still lost at least that amount. My company has also lost more.....
