The Brexit Special

Whatever your political persuasion, defend your corner here. All we ask is that you voice YOUR opinion, rather than just post a link to a half-hour youtube video. Politics can get a bit lively, and if you prefer a less combative debate, please post in the Politics for Moderates section instead.
jeba
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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by jeba » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:37 am

Firefly wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:47 pm
politicians we elected to carry out our wishes.
Isn´t the UK a representative democracy? If so, you don´t elect MPs to carry out your wishes but rather to take the decisions they deem best.

Jim B
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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Jim B » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:02 am

Correct Jeba.

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Firefly
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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Firefly » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:12 pm

Jeba

Represent us, i.e. carry out the wishes of the people they represent no ?

Jackie
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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by jeba » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:45 pm

Firefly wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:12 pm
Jeba

Represent us, i.e. carry out the wishes of the people they represent no ?

Jackie
No. That wouldn´t be a representative democracy (where MPs are only accountable to their conscience and supposed to vote for what they deem best - which isn´t necessarily what the majority of voters want) but a direct democracy (where they are bound e. g. by referenda).

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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Firefly » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:38 pm

So does that mean that the referendum result means nothing if the majority of M.P.s don't want to leave the EU ? If so, it all seems like a huge waste of time and public money and a recipe for disaster.

Brexiteers are becoming restless, not good. Still my initial question remains unanswered.


Jackie
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by jeba » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:03 pm

Firefly wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:38 pm
So does that mean that the referendum result means nothing if the majority of M.P.s don't want to leave the EU ? If so, it all seems like a huge waste of time and public money and a recipe for disaster.
Well, that´s how representative democracies are supposed to work. It´s not the for electorate to directly make decisions (unlike e. g. in Switzerland).

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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Firefly » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:55 pm

Then why did we have a referendum ?
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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kingfisher
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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by kingfisher » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:24 pm

Jackie- To try and fool the great unwashed into thinking that we actually have some say.
More fools us for falling for it- the same arrogant, entitled elite- global finance, multinationals and their flunkies in politics, the media and academia will, it seems, continue to call the shots.

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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Firefly » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:37 pm

Jon

I fear you are correct, we will just have to wait and see what transpires now that Mrs May will continue in her role as P.M.

Jackie
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Termites Dream » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:23 pm

Firefly wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:37 pm
Jon

I fear you are correct, we will just have to wait and see what transpires now that Mrs May will continue in her role as P.M.

Jackie
From wikipedia for whats its worth.

Referendums in the United Kingdom are very occasionally held at a national, regional or local level. National referendums can be permitted by an Act of Parliament and regulated through the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, but they are by tradition extremely rare due to the principle of parliamentary sovereignty meaning that they cannot be constitutionally binding on either the Government or Parliament, although they usually have a persuasive political effect.

Jackie it therefore means they go to great lengths to find out what you want but reserve the right to tell you to sod off if it does not suit.

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kingfisher
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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by kingfisher » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:41 pm

Spot-on TD. Yet the obvious next step, civil unrest, and revolution, tried in France in 1789, is equally unsuccessful, because they’re still smashing the place up 200 years later.
Mind you, that could be just down to the French temperament, which reminds me of a good saying: “Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose”……

Jon

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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Firefly » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:10 pm

T.D.

Quite so, but then why do we allow such a waste of our money without complaint.


Jackie
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Dominic
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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Dominic » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:17 pm

Because nobody has yet come up with a better alternative.
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Termites Dream
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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Termites Dream » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:37 pm

Dominic wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:17 pm
Because nobody has yet come up with a better alternative.
Dominic it can be improved by making it binding on Parliament but Parliament would need to approve the reduction in its powers.....so I will not hold my breath. It occurs to me as I write this however that if MP's did give up their powers they would not call referenda...... :roll:

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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by kingfisher » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:57 pm

As in 1944....

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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Firefly » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:09 am

Seen on Facebook commenting on the recent riots, "If the French are fighting the French, who will they surrender to". Well it made me chuckle.

Jackie
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Dominic
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Re: The Brexit Special

Post by Dominic » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:27 am

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