Confused dot com

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Devil
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Devil » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:06 pm

Firefly wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:14 pm
BUT, I understand from my M.P. that the EU will not allow vaccination of cattle against TB.
Simply because a) the vaccination has not proved effective in all cases and b) a cow with the disease prior to the vaccination can transmit it to other beasts for weeks before it can be detected. Horrible, yes, but slaughter of a herd is the most effective control and this is not forbidden by the EU.

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jim B » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:16 pm

Jackie
The white paper also statès the vaccine isn't 100% effective that's the reasoning behind the reluctance of both the UK and the EU to use it, not bloody mindedness.
Which EU Laws adversely affect your living standards; I can list several off the top of my head that actually improved both my personal and working life.
Yes we do pay money into the UK but we get a lot of it back to spend on projects that benefit areas all across the country and not just the South East. Yes, some of that money could go to the NHS and so could all the tax avoidance money that's being moved offshore every year by the Mega Rich, the EU was introducing legislation to stop it; one of those laws that you don't like.

Jim

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Firefly » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:24 pm

LB

Some politicians share your view :lol:

Jim B

Not being 100% effective is no reason not to use it, we use it on people. Which vaccines are 100 % effective ?

Devil,

yes I agree that tests for TB in cattle are only appox. 50% reliable, maybe time to improve those.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jim B » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:49 pm

Firefly wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:24 pm
LB

Some politicians share your view :lol:

Jim B

Not being 100% effective is no reason not to use it, we use it on people. Which vaccines are 100 % effective ?

Devil,

yes I agree that tests for TB in cattle are only appox. 50% reliable, maybe time to improve those.
Jackie
I think Devil explained the reason why quite clearly don't you think?

Jim

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:12 am

As is evident from this Political section, the one thing Brexit has done is gone and split the country into two. One of the most divisive issues of my generation.

And if Scotland and Wales subsequently devolve, was it worth it? If the troubles returns to NI, was it worth it?

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Firefly » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:27 am

Jim

Yes he has, and so did I, some cattle which having been TB tested, and found to be clear, then go on to develop TB. Too late when they have been purchased by another farmer.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jim B » Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:26 pm

Firefly wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:27 am
Jim

Yes he has, and so did I, some cattle which having been TB tested, and found to be clear, then go on to develop TB. Too late when they have been purchased by another farmer.
Jackie

If as Devil stated there's no guarantee the vaccine will work it's a bit pointless relying on it don't you think? There's no guarantee that a vaccinated cow won't go on to develop TB after being purchased by another Farmer.

Jim

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Firefly » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:33 pm

Jim

Ok, if I accept all the above, does it not follow that killing badgers will not stop TB in cattle. It is a ploy by the Government to placate the farmer.

So we have to accept that we will never eradicate TB in cattle, so why spend money trying to do it ?
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jim B » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:57 pm

Jackie

I have no idea.
A quick read up on it suggests there's no scientific evidence that badger culling works and any benefits are minimal.
Possibly just a case that Defra are seen to be doing something.

Jim

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Devil » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:10 pm

Firefly wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:33 pm
So we have to accept that we will never eradicate TB in cattle, so why spend money trying to do it ?
So you don't mind all your dairy products come from TB-infected milk? Get real.

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Firefly » Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:50 pm

Devil

Sometimes I think you are just being obtuse. You have stated that testing for TB is not effective, you also state that vaccine isn't 100%, then this ! And what pray, does 'Get real' mean?

What is your solution ? what procedure do you think will be effective ?
Last edited by Firefly on Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jim B » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:49 pm

When I was a young lad I used to deliver milk before school and they had several different types; sterilized, fresh, Channel Island and TT which stood for Tuberculin Tested so they must have tested for it in the early sixties.
Nowadays milk sold to the public is pasteurized.

Jim

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jimgward » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:52 pm

We have diverged. Jackie stated the EU prevents testing of cattle for TB, which has been shown, like all the other EU ‘laws’ to be scaremongering.

Sadly, there is no easy solution.

Bit it does show how the MSM in the UK convinced so many people that EU bad, UK good.

I heard on LBC today, people stating on LBC today how they voted leave because they didn’t want their children to fight in an EU army and conscription starts in 2020! Others that they still believed Turkey was set to be admitted as Boris said so in 2016.

Honestly. I spoke to my better half’s uncle today, who voted Brexit. He is now 100% remain and so angry at how he was lied to. By so many.
Last edited by Jimgward on Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Firefly » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:06 pm

Jimgw

No I said that the EU prevented vaccination.

My Son In Law, a died in the wool Labour voter, voted to remain. Now he says that if we had another referendum, he would vote to leave, because that was the democratic vote but it has not been carried out......yet.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jimgward » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:10 pm

Jackie

I think we will leave, but only with a deal. The country is split and only a deal will accommodate the Remainers AND the Leavers.

Boris doesn't want a deal as he is desperate to get out completely before the Money Laundering laws come in in Jan 2020. Farage and others are the same. There is a deal to be had and I think parliament would now vote for a version of May's deal. Perhaps with NI backstop in the Irish Sea?
.

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Firefly » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:18 pm

Jimgw

Who knows, all I know is that we are all fed up of the whole sorry mess. Will it ever be sorted out, I hope so, sooner rather than later.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:55 am

Wasn't everyone as appalled as I was by Boris's performance in Luxembourg yesterday?

What a disgrace of a Prime Minister.

Despite repeatedly voicing platitudes about 'progress being made' and 'a deal being in sight', Boris took with him not one concrete proposal for overcoming the Irish Backstop problem, nor indeed a Deal. The EU have repeatedly said to him, tell us what you want, give us your ideas, but as always he fails to do so. Because he has no solution...and he has no Deal in mind. He really does NOT want a Deal, despite the pretence to the contrary.

And as for leaving an empty podium, the views expressed by Xavier Bettel were well deserved. So glad Bettel asserted that the EU should not be blamed for the failure of talks...and that it was all down to the UK. It most certainly is.

What a bl**dy shambles Boris and this hapless government of No Deal leavers is. They're putting their own interests over that of the country.

Firefly wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:18 pm
Who knows, all I know is that we are all fed up of the whole sorry mess. Will it ever be sorted out, I hope so, sooner rather than later.

Check my posts on this forum from 3 years ago Jackie and you'll see I many times said "...this will all end in tears".

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jimgward » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:38 am

I see Boris made the excuse that nothing is written down about his idea of a ‘deal’ as he doesn’t want it leaked..... as Lloyd says, he doesn’t want a deal, he wants out before money-laundering laws affect him and his super-rich friends

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jimgym » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:54 am

And of course that arch remained Theresa May made such a grand job of things didn't she?! Seems it's not only Leavers who can completely balls things up eh!

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Re: Confused dot com

Post by boycott » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:19 pm

Jimgward wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:10 pm
Jackie

I think we will leave, but only with a deal. The country is split and only a deal will accommodate the Remainers AND the Leavers.

Boris doesn't want a deal as he is desperate to get out completely before the Money Laundering laws come in in Jan 2020. Farage and others are the same. There is a deal to be had and I think parliament would now vote for a version of May's deal. Perhaps with NI backstop in the Irish Sea?
.
Jimward, any chance of any evidence of Boris, Farage and others wanting to get out before Money Laundering Laws come in in Jan 2020 or is just fake news?

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