Paphos Life

Petition against Boris's plan to Prorogue parliament.

UK petition. Link below. Growing faster than the previous one. This is for info only. I don't intend it to become a discussion for or against Brexit.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157

Seems like it is too late as according to the latest headlines The Queen has approved Johnson's request.

The petition was launched before she approved the suspension :-/

"BBC royal correspondent Jonny Dymond said it was established precedent to prorogue Parliament before a Queen's Speech, albeit generally more briefly, and rarely, if ever, at such a constitutionally charged time.
He said it was "Her Majesty's Government" in name only and it was her role to take the advice of her ministers, so she would prorogue Parliament if asked to.
While it is not possible to mount a legal challenge to the Queen's exercise of her personal prerogative powers, BBC legal affairs correspondent Clive Coleman said a judicial review could be launched into the advice given to her by the prime minister - to determine whether that advice was lawful."

Wonder if they will?

Seem to remember most Prime ministers promising a new world & am getting too old to worry about it. The fight now rests with a younger generation. This will be their world. Brexit for me has clouded the real issues facing UK citizens

At last the UK is getting on with the wishes of the people who voted in the referendum to leave the EU.

I didn't vote and neither do I have in-depth knowledge of economics or politics to decide if it was the correct decision. What is important to me is that people voted to leave and we have wasted 3 years already. Even some MPs who represent constituences that voted to leave have been hampered because the MP wanted to remain - surprised they weren't ousted from their seats, but as I say, politics has never been a subject I ever wish to spend too much time on!

Ah a petition, which unlike an election or indeed the referendum, has no controls in place to ensure the “voting public” are indeed the “voting public”.

Are you trying to suggest it could be a little bit "IFFY"

Earlsfield wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:05 pm Ah a petition, which unlike an election or indeed the referendum, has no controls in place to ensure the “voting public” are indeed the “voting public”.

A bit like the referendum then?

Jim B wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:52 pm

Earlsfield wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:05 pm Ah a petition, which unlike an election or indeed the referendum, has no controls in place to ensure the “voting public” are indeed the “voting public”.

A bit like the referendum then?

How So? Or just sour grapes?

I don't do "sour grapes"

How so? The Supreme Court judged the Referendum was advisory and because of this they could not order a rerun. The whole process was "IFFY" to say the least.

Jim

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44856992

Anyone remember when Great Britain was the model Democracy, and all the World looked up to it and respected how things got done, now when talking about Democracy, its no better then North Korea I wanted the UK to stay in Europe, but a referendum was had and the majority voted to leave, that is Democracy, not agreeing to accept votes that only go with your views.

WHL wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:35 am Anyone remember when Great Britain was the model Democracy, and all the World looked up to it and respected how things got done, now when talking about Democracy, its no better then North Korea I wanted the UK to stay in Europe, but a referendum was had and the majority voted to leave, that is Democracy, not agreeing to accept votes that only go with your views.

I agree WHL. I never voted to leave as I just couldn't decide. However I accept the will of the majority who voted.

Whinston Churchill once said.

“We have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed.
This line was added
If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.”

But Churchill also warned:

“If, on the other hand, the European trade community were to be permanently restricted to the six nations, the results might be worse than if nothing were done at all – worse for them as well as for us. It would tend not to unite Europe but to divide it – and not only in the economic field.*”

WHL wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:35 am Anyone remember when Great Britain was the model Democracy, and all the World looked up to it and respected how things got done, now when talking about Democracy, its no better then North Korea I wanted the UK to stay in Europe, but a referendum was had and the majority voted to leave, that is Democracy, not agreeing to accept votes that only go with your views.

Like most over the years I've accepted results of elections both local and general. I may not have liked the result but have accepted it because all in all they were usually carried out with integrity and honesty.
The referendum on the other hand was corrupted by certain groups who were reported to the police by the the Electoral Commission.
The difference as I see it is people like me support democracy but with honesty and integrity wereas you're quite happy to accept the result won by any means.
Of course if Remain had lost under acceptable standards I would still support remain but would have accepted the result but by supporting this referendum result you are condoning corruption at the heart of our democratic system.
It's not me who said the referendum had no legal standing, it was the Supreme Court, it was not me who said the referendum was corrupted, it was the Electoral Commission

Jim

Jim B wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:07 am

WHL wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:35 am Anyone remember when Great Britain was the model Democracy, and all the World looked up to it and respected how things got done, now when talking about Democracy, its no better then North Korea I wanted the UK to stay in Europe, but a referendum was had and the majority voted to leave, that is Democracy, not agreeing to accept votes that only go with your views.

Like most over the years I've accepted results of elections both local and general. I may not have liked the result but have accepted it because all in all they were usually carried out with integrity and honesty.
The referendum on the other hand was corrupted by certain groups who were reported to the police by the the Electoral Commission.
The difference as I see it is people like me support democracy but with honesty and integrity wereas you're quite happy to accept the result won by any means.
Of course if Remain had lost under acceptable standards I would still support remain but would have accepted the result but by supporting this referendum result you are condoning corruption at the heart of our democratic system.
It's not me who said the referendum had no legal standing, it was the Supreme Court, it was not me who said the referendum was corrupted, it was the Electoral Commission

Jim

Sorry but your scrapping the barrel, the country went to the polls in a simple remain or leave vote, name me one politician that dosnt lie, and had the vote been to remain, im sure you would not be questioning its legal standing....having that War Criminal scum bag Tony Blair, calling for another referendum, should tell you everything you want to know...... as I said I think the UK is shooting its self in the foot, by leaving, but it was the wish of the people, and as a Democrat, thats the end of it.

WHL wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:25 am but it was the wish of the people, and as a Democrat, thats the end of it.

Maybe you should look up what representative democracy means. MPs aren´t delegates who have to accept orders from their constituencies. And for good reason. At least that´s what I learnt in school (in Germany though).

jeba wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:41 am

WHL wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:25 am but it was the wish of the people, and as a Democrat, thats the end of it.

Maybe you should look up what representative democracy means. MPs aren´t delegates who have to accept orders from their constituencies. And for good reason. At least that´s what I learnt in school (in Germany though).

And maybe you should look up what the UK Prime minister of the day, said when he announced the referendum, with respect after everyone of your posts you quote thats what happens in Germany, Not very useful when living in Cyprus and discussing the UK..

Definition of Democracy.

Taken from the OED (with my comments in brackets).

1. Government by the people; (note, not by Parliament)
2. A form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people (again not Parliament) and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
3. A sovereign (independent) state having such a form of government:
4. A state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges. (Respecting the majority vote)
5. Political or social equality; democratic spirit. (The EU Referendum was the peoples vote not the politicians)
6. The common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power. (Hope Speaker Bercow, who's meant to be impartial know knows this)

_________________
Clive of Payia

WHL wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:49 am

jeba wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:41 am

WHL wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:25 am but it was the wish of the people, and as a Democrat, thats the end of it.

Maybe you should look up what representative democracy means. MPs aren´t delegates who have to accept orders from their constituencies. And for good reason. At least that´s what I learnt in school (in Germany though).

And maybe you should look up what the Prime minister of the day, said when he announced the referendum, with respect after everyone of your posts you quote thats what happens in Germany, well its got nothing to do with the UK.

Well, I´m German, so I´neither took specific interest in what went on in the UK nor am I in a position to comment from a British perspective. Brexit only affects me personally insofar as I have some of my retirement savings invested in the UK and I don´t like what´s happened to them and the value of the GBP.
That said, I don´t think the concept of representative democracy has anything to do with which country you´re from. Plus I haven´t "quoted" what happens in Germany but rather tried to clarify that concept a bit. A PM can´t speak for Parliament (the sovereign) anyway, so you can´t base your argument (that because Cameron said the referendum will be binding it will indeed be) on it. Also, as I tried to point out in another thread, there was no referendum on whether the UK should leave to customs union and the common market and therefore, nobody can claim to have a mandate for a no deal Brexit (in my view anyway). From what I read in different forums I have some doubts that the ordinary man in the street knows what common market and customs union are about anyway (neither did I before I looked it up).