Page 1 of 3
Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:38 pm
by Firefly
This nasty little man, who likes nothing better than the sound of his own voice, has apparently blocked a third vote. What a complete and utter shambles, God help Britain, because it seems no-one else can.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:47 pm
by kingfisher
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:54 pm
by Devil
'Speaker John Bercow said the government could not bring forward proposals for a vote that were substantially the same as had already been defeated twice before, in January and last week. '
Bravo, Bravo, Bravissimo. At last, some sense!
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:59 pm
by Jimgward
Firefly wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:38 pm
This nasty little man, who likes nothing better than the sound of his own voice, has apparently blocked a third vote. What a complete and utter shambles, God help Britain, because it seems no-one else can.
So, you object to him following proper procedure and law?
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:48 pm
by Dominic
Firefly wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:38 pm
This nasty little man, who likes nothing better than the sound of his own voice, has apparently blocked a third vote. What a complete and utter shambles, God help Britain, because it seems no-one else can.
If you are for another vote can we presume you would also support another referendum?
And unlike the parlimentary vote, the referendum would be on something different: Remain or Leave With No Deal.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:19 pm
by ApusApus
I don't think he has physically blocked a third vote but has said you cannot vote on essentially the same thing again (and again) unless it has fundamentally changed!
Whether he has some sort of "agenda" is open for debate but as far as I can see his judgement is logical and makes sense ………………… does that help the Brexit farce, I've no idea!
Shane
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:01 pm
by Dominic
I agree. The notion that parliament should keep voting on the same thing over and over is a bit silly. Mind you, it is no sillier than Trump vetoing something then congress vetoing the veto etc etc.
The World has gone mad.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:39 am
by outasite
This will annoy Mrs Mays bosses in the EU, now she can no longer follow their diktat that she keeps getting parliament to vote until it is in their favour. Perhaps she will now be instructed to ignore this little hurdle to her and their plans to keep us in as full Members and blame Berkow in her speech explaining why we are not leaving which she will release on March 30th.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:13 am
by WHL
I cant stand the little Muppet. but on this matter, I think he has a point.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:19 pm
by Firefly
Yes he has a point but we don't know if it is indeed the same, it might well be different, I'm sure Mrs May knows the law as well as Bercow does.
Dominic
I am for a no deal Brexit, I am against another referendum, it has been voted on, our decision was leave. That said, Parliament has stopped no deal, it has also stopped a deal, it's crazy. In effect they want us to remain, come hell or high water, they will fight for that.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:53 pm
by Dominic
Firefly wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:19 pm
I am against another referendum, it has been voted on, our decision was leave.
Similarly, the government has already voted on May's deal. The decison was no.
Bercow was basically pointing out what you are pointing out. The difference is, a second referendum would be for something different. It wouldn't be Remain or Leave in some as yet undetermined fashion. It would be remain or leave with no deal.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:08 pm
by Firefly
Why remain or leave with no deal ? Why not leave with a deal or leave without a deal ? remain or leave has already been voted upon.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:27 pm
by josef k
Lets see if I have this right. Those who are saying the "deal" should be voted on for a 3rd time are saying that parliament should ditch the rules and have the vote because they say it's democratic to do that. They also are against a 2nd referendum because the question has been asked already and to have another referendum wouldn't be democratic. Or am I missing something?
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:00 pm
by Firefly
Josef
Is it 'the deal', or is there something else involved ? If not then yes Bercow was within his rights, but is it ?
I think the thing you and others are missing is that we voted leave, our M.P.s should, if they truly represent their constituents, ensure that we do just that, but they are not, the majority are only representing their own feelings, that is undemocratic. They will not vote for a deal, nor will they vote for no deal, so what exactly do you think should happen ?
Jackie
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:05 pm
by Dominic
Firefly, what bit don't you get? Bercow said May is allowed to have another vote, provided it is not the same one as before. He didn't say she could never have another vote.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:06 pm
by Dominic
Hudswell wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:49 pm
Confusing? I agree but I would suggest the dynamics of a parliamentary vote on Mrs Mays deal are changing constantly! The EU have declared that there are no further substantial negotiations to be had...the deal is apparently the only deal on the table. The threat of an 2 year extension will have focused the minds of Brexiteers and the threat/possibility of a much diluted agreement or even a no deal has apparently changed the views of some on the existing deal. Those that support remain (including Bercow) will sieze on a lengthy extension because it provides hope for a second referendum (unlikely) The EU of course will grant an extension because it suits their agenda of obstruction until they get the result they want. The threat of Leaving with a “No Deal” has substantially decreased A third vote may indeed be passsed or again rejected, but it should go ahead. Factors effecting a decision have changed significantly although the deal itself has not, Bercow is playing this to his own advantage and politics, he is a remainer, his credibility as in impartial speaker has been shot to pieces.
Complete and utter guff.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:17 pm
by Firefly
Dominic
I don't 'get' that he already knows that the deal is the same, do you, is it ? As for never have another vote, there isn't much time left for one is there before we are due to leave ?
Come back Guy Fawkes your country needs you.
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:28 pm
by Dominic
First of all, please expand upon your nonsense. What, for instance, does this mean?
"Dynamics of the vote "
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:36 pm
by kingfisher
Re: Bercow Stops Third Vote
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:07 pm
by Dominic
Hudswell wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:49 pm
Dominic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:28 pm
First of all, please expand upon your nonsense. What, for instance, does this mean?
"Dynamics of the vote "
The influences that “inform and help direct “ those that are responsible for making that decision. The pros and cons, the limitations, the “what ifs”, the effect of change, ever done a SWOT analysis? Project management? Mission Analysis? Strategic/Operational/Tactical Planning?
Perhaps this helps:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... sh/dynamic
Para 3 or 4 maybe.
Or,this
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46831229
I have done plenty of SWOTs in my time. I know all the jargon thank you. I also know it routinely gets misused. You are using it here to try and provide an air of authority to a weak argument. When you say the dynamics of the vote have changed, what do you actually mean? I don't want you to define terms, I want you to say what you mean. What dynamics have changed?
