Paphos Life

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nh ... 30436.html


As an NHS doctor, I voted for Brexit – but now I see how it could destroy the health service, I want a vote on the final deal
Take it from me that, had many Leave voters foreseen the consequences of Brexit, the 2016 referendum would have returned a different result. It’s painfully obvious that the consent given by the public for Brexit was not informed consent

Charles Gallaher
1 day ago
161 comments

Huds,me auld mucked, I could counter your argument many times over.... the reality is, I’d reckon mist people in the UK are seriously fearful of what COULD happen with brexit, It may be unnecessary fear, but the notion of a hard and relentless brexit scares most ordinary people and even many Brexit voters would like a decision on the final proposals.

Oh, and I’d take an Independent article over a Mail one any day - they’re hardly known for truthful reporting and I could counter their article many times over....

One wonderful comment I found elsewhere, regarding this article -

"Yep. I’m an NHS doctor who voted remain and I can’t understand anyone with any decency and forethought who would have voted leave. So now we’ll all have to live with it and it’s the fault of people like you who really didn’t consider the consequences. So........"

It is sensible to be wary of the unknown. A basic survival instinct, in fact.

This was another very telling comment. Or just Project Fear?

_______________________

Well if the UK manages to get a WTO schedule sorted and reverts to WTO rules, they state that you cannot fund the NHS from tax, before they were turned into trusts you might have been able to but now WTO rules on subsidies means it will all have to be opened up to international health companies.
The EU have a negotiated opt out, the UK would find one hard to get.
https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/gp ... _gpa_e.htm


No deal BREXIT could mean the end of a state supported health service, it certainly needs to be discussed openly and honestly with the public.

________________________

Or are we going to ignore the WTO and set up trade agreements with Martians instead, or the inhabitants of Cloud Cuckoo Land?

As Dominic points out, it should be debated. I cannot understand that here we are, more than 2 years down the line and no agreements in place, no prospects of trading alliances yet (I know they cannot be ratified yet, but its not looking good at all) and complete uncertainty.

Some Brexit voters want to leave irrespective of the consequences. I cannot believe the majority of the country want that.

I saw this on a footie forum..... very succinct.

“I watched the documentary on bbc there and it made me realise how fortunate we are to have this magnificent institution. We need to safeguard it. I have real reason to grayeful as they saved my daughter's life when she was three and are still keeping an eye on her. Some folk get caught up in things like Brexit and immigration and wars but we need to protect our precious NHS and it's wonderful doctors , nurses, paramedics, admin staff and cleaners for future generations.“

Funnily enough I watched a news item today re. the German Health Service, apparently they are experiencing a shortage of nurses, they are finding it hard to recruit nurses, and this is leading to a worrying situation there.

Now had this been about Britain, all the remainers would have no doubt been jumping up and down blaming Brexit. Well it's not and Germany is not leaving the EU, so maybe something else is to blame, just as it probably is here.

Jackie

Ah yes, of course it is

It's painfully obvious that the consent given by the public for Brexit was not informed consent.
No. The referendum asked if we wanted to stay or wanted to leave. The majority who bothered to get out of bed and vote said leave.
Of course, Brexit will destroy every single thing British, we will sink into third world chaos, just before the UK sinks forever into darkness.
At least that is how I interpret all the rap with a silent C that those who voted Remain, and even some who didn't bother to vote yet seem to think they have a say keep harping on and on and on and on and on.

Getting back on topic, I don't think that Dr Gallaher has anything to crow about …………… after all his last sentence sums up his view! Most rational people agree that the NHS has to reform & evolve, it cannot carry on in its present form as it was never envisaged to cope with the pressures it faces today! But not Dr Gallaher, he states "The survival of the NHS in its current form might just depend on it "the final terms of the Brexit deal" …………… he obviously doesn't accept that the NHS has to reform!

But then he is but 1 doctor's voice in around 140,000 doctors in the NHS today!


Shane

Firefly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:31 pm Funnily enough I watched a news item today re. the German Health Service, apparently they are experiencing a shortage of nurses, they are finding it hard to recruit nurses, and this is leading to a worrying situation there.

Now had this been about Britain, all the remainers would have no doubt been jumping up and down blaming Brexit. Well it's not and Germany is not leaving the EU, so maybe something else is to blame, just as it probably is here.

Jackie

There is a shortage of nurses in Germany because they are paid very little. You don´t have to study to become a nurse in Germany and therefore you don´t have the same responsibilities as British nurses but are more dependent on doctor´s instructions. I know of British nurses who came to Germany and were shocked by the low salaries (on average less than € 2500 before tax and mandatory contributions to social insurance and health insurance, source: https://www.steuerklassen.com/gehalt/krankenschwester/ ) and decided to rather stay at home. So I guess you can´t really comparethe situation of a nurse in Germany with that of a nurse in the UK. I doubt there would be such shortage if nurses were paid at UK levels.

Hudswell wrote: ↑Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:54 pm A newly qualified UK nurse starts on about €2100, rising to about €2600 when at the top of the band...euros not pounds and of course before taxes National insurances etc...NHS pay is always being held up as low, a recent pay rise will address the situation to a degree....but be under no impression UK nurses are "flush".And don't do your country down Jeba, having looked on wiki at the requirements training and education of Nurses in Germany, it is not dissimilar to the UK, and of course German Nurses are qualified to work in the NHS...

Now you made me curious. So I checked the salary of a nurse (fully qualified but entry level with no experience, working 40 hours per week) in Berlin and it turned out to be € 13,70 per hour or € 2193.- per month. That´s gross salary though, before social security contributions and tax (source: https://www.lohnspiegel.de/html/gehaltscheck.php). The take-home pay is only € 1484,78 (assumptions: gross salary € 2193, 20 years of age, not married, no children, residing in Berlin, not liable for Church tax, paying only mandatory minimum pension contribution (which will result in a pension of less than 50% of your last net income once you´re 67 years of age) (source: https://www.nettolohn.de/brutto-netto-ergebnis). Nurses in Germany don´t study at university but merely go to nursing schools which have lower requirements for admission (Germany has a tiered system of secondary education and only the highest tier will give you access to university). And those are the salaries of nurses in Western Germany - they are lower in the formerly communist East (according to postings in this thread: https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/to ... n-germany/ salaries of nurses in Eastern Germany are as low as € 11 - 12 per hour). As a cherry on the top you still have to deduct the mandatory public broadcasting fee of € 17,50 per month (and per household) which is technically not a tax but has to be paid nevertheless. As most are members of a church they´ll also have to pay church tax which is 8% of your income tax (based on a contract between Nazi-Germany and the Vatican which is still in effect).

An interesting and informative post, Jeba. It was the last sentence which I found intriguing- I must find out more about this!

kingfisher wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:43 am An interesting and informative post, Jeba. It was the last sentence which I found intriguing- I must find out more about this!

If you have command of German you might want to google for "Reichskonkordat"

Jeba

My daughter became a Registered Nurse in the UK, without going to university. She then went on to qualify as a Midwife, to do that she did need a university degree. Even so I consider that she is poorly paid for the level of responsibility she has.

Jackie

Firefly wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:39 pm Jeba

My daughter became a Registered Nurse in the UK, without going to university. She then went on to qualify as a Midwife, to do that she did need a university degree. Even so I consider that she is poorly paid for the level of responsibility she has.

Jackie

I didn´t know that´s possible. I was told that physiotherapists and nurses have to study in the UK (in contrast to Germany). Is there some sort of exception which applied to your daughter or was I misinformed?

Jeba

She studied at a local college to become a nurse, that isn't the same thing as a university in the UK. Her degree in midwifery is from a university.

Jackie