Paphos Life

Before they can have a second vote they have to come to an agreed settlement. Once they do that, then a referendum on it would be fair, in my opinion. Unlike the first referendum, people would then know what they are actually voting for.

But it should be a short campaign. Say, a month at most, assuming it can be organised that quickly. And that vote should be binding, no matter how close it is. If 50.01% vote for Brexit and 49.99% vote to remain, then Brexit it should be, and vice verca. It will be time for Britain to move on. Let's face it, either the EU or Brexit is better than all this uncertainty.

Dominic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:57 am Before they can have a second vote they have to come to an agreed settlement. Once they do that, then a referendum on it would be fair, in my opinion. Unlike the first referendum, people would then know what they are actually voting for.

But it should be a short campaign. Say, a month at most, assuming it can be organised that quickly. And that vote should be binding, no matter how close it is. If 50.01% vote for Brexit and 49.99% vote to remain, then Brexit it should be, and vice verca. It will be time for Britain to move on. Let's face it, either the EU or Brexit is better than all this uncertainty.

It´s none of my business as I´m not British. But I´m throwing in my 2 cents anyway: matters of such importance shouldn´t be made a binary decision i. e. with no room for negotiation and amendment and should therefore not be decided by a referendum in the first place. That´s what you have parliament for. There should also be a solid majority be required as in many other countries (in my view at least 60%).

I agree that they shouldn't. However, for better or for worse, that decision has already been made, and is a matter of historical record.

Dominic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:40 am I agree that they shouldn't. However, for better or for worse, that decision has already been made, and is a matter of historical record.

In view of all the bickering about it maybe you should have said "...hysterical record".
Like Jeba I am not British but it all effects my Country, especially in regard to security and intelligence sharing.
Jeba is right, Parliament must get on with the way forward and the population bound by whatever they decide.
I sometimes wonder if the media (broadcasters and newspapers) in UK report the news or try and influence what happens!
Amos.

You seem to enjoy the bickering Exodus. You are certainly good at posting a contentious comment and standing back to watch what happens.

Dominic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:07 am You seem to enjoy the bickering Exodus. You are certainly good at posting a contentious comment and standing back to watch what happens.

What is contentious about my comment? Thought provoking maybe - if you Brits THOUGHT things through a bit more maybe you would not feel the need to bicker.
I hope you are not suggesting non-Brits shouldn't make comments - Brexit effects many outside of the EU and UK, especially with regard to security.
BTW, quite recently contentious comments were made about my Country and the Palestinian situation. They were contentious and highly critical, not thought provoking or designed to be; quite offensive actually.
Thank you.
Amos.

I didn't mean that comment. I was referring in general terms to some of your comments.

exodus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:49 am

Dominic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:07 am You seem to enjoy the bickering Exodus. You are certainly good at posting a contentious comment and standing back to watch what happens.

What is contentious about my comment? Thought provoking maybe - if you Brits THOUGHT things through a bit more maybe you would not feel the need to bicker.
I hope you are not suggesting non-Brits shouldn't make comments - Brexit effects many outside of the EU and UK, especially with regard to security.
BTW, quite recently contentious comments were made about my Country and the Palestinian situation. They were contentious and highly critical, not thought provoking or designed to be; quite offensive actually.
Thank you.
Amos.

Amos

I am sure most if not all on here would welcome your comments on Brexit and all else. In fact, I relish comments from 'outside' the affected demographic. It sometimes brings an enlightened, or real-world view.

I also agree that Brexit 'could' potentially have an effect on European security, if we end up with a Trump-Wall type policy, where we fall out so much, that trust in european partners is affected. I don't think that will happen, but I am sure at this stage, we cannot afford to speculate too much on that.

WHL did make contentious comments on the Palestinian and Israeli situation, which I can imagine could be see as offensive from one side of that divide. I don't think he actually meany it to be offensive, more trying to create a similarity to the situation referred to. AS I pointed out on that thread, criticism of a state should be allowed at any time. In fact, while I love my country, I am one of the first to criticise if I feel it's warranted, as I believe that only through that will things be influenced to change. It has to be within reason and I think if that is the case, then it should be seen as nothing more than political commentary and not bigotry or racism or sectarianism.

Good post Jim! I really appreciate posts from Amos and Jeba and,whilst I may not always agree with them, it is refreshing to see things from their perspective and yes you both have as much right to your opinions on BREXIT as anyone else!

I am assuming the increase in the number of people wanting a second referendum is a result of people now being aware of the facts, rather than the partial and/or incorrect information during the first referendum campaign.

It would be interesting to know which people want a second referendum based on those assumptions, eh Josef...

Would it be from those who didn't see the bigger picture when they had the information in front of them on the first occasion or, is it those those who voted No wanting to give those who voted Yes an opportunity to change their minds on a re-run?

It's been quite interesting recently as the immigration ruling has now raised a dilemma for some people we met since we returned to live in UK. These are people who have been very vocal about Brexit since June last year and often discuss why people are allowed to willy nilly enter the UK. Suddenly members of their family are affected as they've recently decided to return from overseas and it's made the realise the consequences of that vote.

Their child and spouse are extremely qualified and therefore present no difficulty in getting decent paid work (one is a university lecturer and the other a doctor) but one is Chinese and subject to the new rules so will eventually have to sit the citizenship exam after already paying a hefty fee for the application.

Of course, the parents are not particularly happy now....

Poppy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:17 pm Good post Jim! I really appreciate posts from Amos and Jeba and,whilst I may not always agree with them, it is refreshing to see things from their perspective and yes you both have as much right to your opinions on BREXIT as anyone else!

Nobody's saying they don't.

It amazes me that all this 'decision' re. a second referendum seems to imply that many British Citizens now KNOW that they will be 'worse off' after Brexit. How ? may I ask, no-one knows, and until it's all over, no-one will, all pure conjecture.

Jackie

Lloyd

I don't agree the 50 billion Euro payout, but if that's what we have been bullied into paying by the EU mafia to leave, then that's what will be paid. You fail to mention the billions we will no longer be paying into the EU. As for EU workers returning from whence they came, great news for the Brits, more of them employed instead of picking up the weekly Giro.

I live in the UK, we are NOT worse off ! More scare mongering.

Jackie

Poppy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:17 pm Good post Jim! I really appreciate posts from Amos and Jeba and,whilst I may not always agree with them, it is refreshing to see things from their perspective and yes you both have as much right to your opinions on BREXIT as anyone else!

Thank you Poppy, and also Dominic.
Dominic, I realise I might be a bit over sensitive about my Country's position regards the Palestinians and I apologise to WHL if as you say he was not meaning to be offensive.
However we are under constant threat every day from our enemies so I hope forum members will understand.
Amos.

PhotoLady wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:52 pm It would be interesting to know which people want a second referendum based on those assumptions, eh Josef...

Would it be from those who didn't see the bigger picture when they had the information in front of them on the first occasion or, is it those those who voted No wanting to give those who voted Yes an opportunity to change their minds on a re-run?

A lot depends on where people got their information from. If they got it from the Daily Mail, for example (being the highest selling newspaper) or from UKIP and their bedfellows, then I suggest they didn't have sufficient/accurate information in front of them. Every day now they are getting more reliable information. It makes sense for people in that situation to review their position and change it if they think appropriate.

It's a great shame, and very unfair, that people had to vote in a referendum when they didn't know what the effects of their vote would be.

I am not certain the statement " contractually obliged" is correct. Had we been obliged to pay, I am certain Cameron, Osborne, Clegg etc would have had this Fact written in huge letters along side the battle bus - "Vote Remain and save 1 Bn a week, to spend etc! "

The House of Lords has already said that according to the treaties, once notice is given, obligations cease 2 years after the notice date, or before if all the remaining members agree. This payment is for a moral obligation to continue contributions up to the end of the current budget framework, plus contributions during the transition period, and later contributions to pensions and EU bodies like EASA, Europol etc that the UK wishes to be a member of, plus if reports are true, spread over quite a long timescale. It should ne noted that should an agreement not be made, this payment will not be due.

As for EU workers so far, there is no evidence that they are not going to the UK to work. The last stats did show a large drop in numbers, however it seemed to be those moving over to "look for work", not those who have a job offer - given that there is a huge population increase in Western Europe, I would imagine that there are plenty of opportunities in other EU Countries which will put pressure on recruitment generally. As long as the UK remains attractive to work in, people will stay and will apply for work there, visa or no visa's

Dominic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:00 pm I didn't mean that comment. I was referring in general terms to some of your comments.

Which of my comments?
Amos.

Is the UK an attractive place to work in?

There's also no such thing as a weekly giro anymore....

Now, it's Universal Credit paid on a monthly basis which has caused another major uproar making people homeless and 6 weeks in debt - but hey, that's another story....