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Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:51 pm
by Poppy
Well despite not much good news coming from the latest negotiations ( although I hardly dare call them negotiations as the EU are refusing to negotiate!) it does seem that it has been agreed in principal that UK citizens in the EU will continue to receive the reciprocal health care as they do now and vice versa for EU citizens in the UK.
I think we all thought this would be so but it must be a relief to some to know this. This is an article from the Guardian by the way but have no idea how to post a link to it - sorry!

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:35 pm
by June
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... pensioners

Hope this helps Poppy but we both know HIC won't like it ;)

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:38 pm
by Poppy
Thanks June but how did you do it? I am really dense!

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:45 pm
by June
Just pm'd you

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:02 am
by Varky
Happy in Cyprus wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:03 am
Poppy wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:51 pmWell despite not much good news coming from the latest negotiations ( although I hardly dare call them negotiations as the EU are refusing to negotiate!)

Poppy, how many times have you, Hudswell, Royal, Jimgym, smudger et all ridiculed me when I have time and again said: "the EU holds all the aces".

What part of that statement did you not understand?

When your opponent (in this case 27 member states who stand solidly, shoulder-to-shoulder) holds all the aces, surely only the most naive would expect them to bow down to one recalcitrant member which has acted all along like a naughty schoolboy, sticking it's two fingers up at authority.

Remember all the wild accusations and insults flung at the EU by Farage and Johnson? And you now expect them to smile while caving in to the sweetheart trade deal which the UK wants? You know: the "wanting your cake and eating it" deal; the one where you eschew membership of the EU but still want all the benefits which arise from being a member of the EU?

Mrs May issues no more than weak, robotic soundbites...and as for foreign minister Boris Johnson, well, least said the better: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/donald-trumps ... 21094.html
Giant step there, HiC. Equating refusal to negotiate with 'holding all the aces'.

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:08 am
by Jimgward
Perhaps if the UK has shown willingness to offer olive branches instead of ministers like Fox accusing them of blackmail.... negotiations might go better.

I think the negotiations from the outside, i.e. messages from Tory ministers, have been appallingly managed.

EU members are currently already offended by Brexit, we needed to massage the egos we know the French and Germans in particular have and played a game with them. I would describe our performance as inept and inexperienced.

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:53 pm
by Jimgym
Happy in Cyprus wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:03 am
Poppy wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:51 pmWell despite not much good news coming from the latest negotiations ( although I hardly dare call them negotiations as the EU are refusing to negotiate!)

Poppy, how many times have you, Hudswell, Royal, Jimgym, smudger et all ridiculed me when I have time and again said: "the EU holds all the aces".

What part of that statement did you not understand?

I never ridiculed you I merely pointed out what complete and utter rubbish you were talking, there is a difference. The EU do not and never will hold all the aces. Simple as that, hopefully you will understand all of that statement.

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:45 pm
by Poppy
LLOYD I AM SHOUTING!! WHY HAVE YOU
COMPLETELY IGNORED THE POSITIVE PART OF MY POST THAT IT HAD BEEN AGREED IN PRINCIPAL THAT EXPATS WILL CONTINUE TO RECEIVE RECIPROCAL HEALTHCARE? I can only assume it is because
this does not affect you personally as you have private health insurance. Somewhat selfish attitude I would have thought. It does not affect me personally but I still care for others who it does affect. Showing your true colours now eh?

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:51 pm
by Royal
Happy in Cyprus wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:03 am
Poppy, how many times have you, Hudswell, Royal, Jimgym, smudger et all ridiculed me when I have time and again said: "the EU holds all the aces".

What part of that statement did you not understand?
I don't recall anyone ridiculing you…



…but I think we would all like you to sit and play poker with us!
Happy in Cyprus wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:03 am
When your opponent (in this case 27 member states who stand solidly, shoulder-to-shoulder) holds all the aces, surely only the most naive would expect them to bow down to one recalcitrant member which has acted all along like a naughty schoolboy, sticking it's two fingers up at authority.
But are they? The only ones doing all the talking are Juncker, Barnier and Verhofstadt. Do you really think that they truly represent the interests or the views of all 27 member states, nearly every one of which will be poorer if we don't get a deal?
Happy in Cyprus wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:03 am Remember all the wild accusations and insults flung at the EU by Farage and Johnson? And you now expect them to smile while caving in to the sweetheart trade deal which the UK wants? You know: the "wanting your cake and eating it" deal; the one where you eschew membership of the EU but still want all the benefits which arise from being a member of the EU?
If what you call a ‘sweetheart trade deal’ and Michel Barnier calls ‘nostalgic thinking’ refers to the UK wanting to be part of a Common Market or European Economic Community - then yes, I for one expect it to happen because it will be mutually beneficial.

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:18 pm
by Firefly
Poppy yes it is good news for ex pats, and no, Lloyd won't like it.

Jackie

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:56 am
by Jim B
I'm interested to know how most equate the "possible" retention of the Reciprocal Health Care as a positive step when we already receive it under the present agreements. It appears we are running but just standing still.

benefit
ˈbɛnɪfɪt/Submit
noun
1.
an advantage or profit gained from something.
"enjoy the benefits of being a member"
synonyms: good, sake, interest, welfare, well-being, satisfaction, enjoyment, advantage, comfort, ease, convenience.

Jim

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:35 am
by Royal
Jim B,

Simple really.

Project FEAR and Project FEAR II make certain dire predictions of doom and gloom as a result of Brexit. Each time one of those predictions is shown to be a false assumption, it is a positive step.

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:21 pm
by Jim B
Not project fear at all; they've been negotiating for nearly six months and the UK hasn't gained anything we don't already have and you are suģgesting that's positive?

Jim

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:34 pm
by Jim B
Nothing to do with the EU, it's the UK that is leaving and up to the UK Government to negotiate the best deal for the people of the UK, just like it's up to the negotiators for the EU to negotiate the best deal for the people of the EU. Now you may not like that Hudswell but that's how it works; it just appears that those negotiating for the EU are better than the clowns negotiating for the UK.

Jim

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:16 pm
by ApusApus
Jim B wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:34 pm it just appears that those negotiating for the EU are better than the clowns negotiating for the UK.

Jim
And on what do you base that statement, as far as I can see neither side has achieved anything yet?

And let's face it, the EU has got itself into a "catch 22" situation really ......... it cannot afford for the UK to have a successful Brexit lest other EU members feel they can follow suit which would put into serious jeopardy the whole EU dream but on the opposite side of the scale the EU needs a strong & prosperous UK to continue to be a substantial trading market for their exports!

They can't have it both ways & although, at the moment they are obviously pushing the former, it won't be too long before they realise that the latter is the best way to go which personally I think they already do!


Shane

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:24 pm
by Royal
Jim B wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:21 pm Not project fear at all; they've been negotiating for nearly six months and the UK hasn't gained anything we don't already have and you are suģgesting that's positive?

Jim
Jim B,

You really need to get up to speed with what’s been said and the context in which it's been said instead of twisting things to suit your next point. Poppy started the thread by saying “it does seem that it has been agreed in principal that UK citizens in the EU will continue to receive the reciprocal health care as they do now and vice versa for EU citizens in the UK.” Of course, you had to point out that it's what we have now, so nothing has changed - “it appears we are running but just standing still” you said. However, Project Fear said that reciprocal healthcare would not be possible. They were wrong. That's positive news, like it or not. Context, Jim B. Context.

Now to your point about the negotiations lasting 6 months.

You are wrong.

Actually, negotiations started on 19 June and lasted 4 days. Round 2 started on 17 July and lasted 4 days. Round 3 started on 28 August and lasted 4 days.

A total of 12 days of “negotiations” - nowhere near the 6 months it suits you to claim. At least 6 days (the first and last in each round) consists of grandstanding, press conferences and photo calls. Where “negotiations” actually take place, Barnier has been saying “Jump” and Davis is refusing to say “How high?”

The EU team are proving themselves to be intransigent, inflexible and impossible to take seriously.

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:52 am
by Jim B
It's not the EU who wants to leave; it's the UK who want to and that's what is being negotiated. If it's the Utopia outside you and like minded people believe why doesn't the UK not just walk away? The EU is a club, the UK wants all the benefits without paying the fees or following the rules and you think that's right? At least the 27 are (whether they like it or not) all singing from the same hymn sheet whereas the UK government are so divided with so much infighting it is becoming a laughing stock and an embarrassment.
What you are saying is that the EU should change the membership rules just specifically to accommodate what the UK Government wants

Royal you always accuse people of twisting things when it doesn't suit your agenda: so we negotiated something we already had and that's progress to you; strange? Of course all the 27 members have yet to agree to it? Project Fear as you call it was a lot of "ifs" and "maybe's", some are already happening and some haven't yet but you forgot to say we haven't left the EU yet.
Also the negotiations have been running for nearly six months; everything doesn't stop when Davis or Barnier return to their respective countries; you can find that information on line.

Jim

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:43 am
by Royal
Jim B wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:52 am ...the negotiations have been running for nearly six months; everything doesn't stop when Davis or Barnier return to their respective countries; you can find that information on line.

Jim
Jim B,

Article 50 invoked 29 March 2017 (5 months ago).

General Election announced on 18 April 2017 (4.5 months ago).

General Election took place 8 June 2017 (3 months ago).

First Brexit Negotiation started 19 June 2017 (11 weeks ago).

You can find that information online.

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:11 am
by Royal
Jim B wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:52 am
Project Fear as you call it was a lot of "ifs" and "maybe's", some are already happening and some haven't yet but you forgot to say we haven't left the EU yet.
Au contraire.

Did George Osborne say that there may be an emergency budget if we voted Brexit? No he said there WILL be one. Didn't happen.

He also didn't say that there may be tax hikes and spending cuts. He said there WILL be. Didn't happen.

The Remainers on this Forum have also confidently said things like healthcare would go, pensions would be pegged and visa travel would be necessary. Not ifs and maybes. The Remainers crystal ball knows all apparently...

Re: Good News for Ex Pat Pensioners!

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:28 am
by Jim B
We are going nowhere fast and that is the truth of the matter; nothing has been agreed or disagreed by the 27 so it is all conjecture. You and others are doing exactly what you accuse Remainers of doing by talking up your position.
We have Reciprocal Health Care already so you can't class it as a benefit gained by Brexit can you?

I think you are just being pedantic and splitting hairs regarding time frame and I'm sure you knew exactly what I meant but I guess throwing up a smoke screen is an old Military tactic which I'm sure you're aware of ;-)

Jim