Paphos Life

The Supreme Court on Monday overturned a conviction against a young British woman who was accused of lying about being gang-raped in 2019, in response to an appeal made by her team of British and Cypriot lawyers in September.

Read the article and chat about it below...

Finally!

No mention of any action being taken against the group of lads....

PhotoLady wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:40 pm Finally!

No mention of any action being taken against the group of lads....

Its not that simple, remember they videoed her having consecial sex with a couple of those lads, it will be a nightmare trying to prove who she said yes to and who she said no to, glad the girl has cleared her name and won't have this hanging over her head, maybe the best solution is to draw a line under it and try to move on.

No means no. It's as simple as that. If this had happened to somebody I loved I wouldn't be content to draw a line under it.

Dominic wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:06 pm No means no. It's as simple as that. If this had happened to somebody I loved I wouldn't be content to draw a line under it.

Totally agree with you Dominic, No should mean No, but if you have agreed to have sex with a couple of guys in the same room, while their mates are filming you, then when you then say no to the others, I doubt if a bunch of testosterone filled teenagers with a hard on, possibly tanked up with booze and drugs, are not going to take any notice, we all have to take some responsibility for our actions, in a perfect world those who raped that girl would be sitting in a jail right now, but as I said, any court in the world would , struggle to make any evidence stick in that situation.

Oh come off it. If somebody starts screaming at you to stop and you carry on then you are a rapist. You are in the wrong. You deserve to be punished.

I just hope the truth comes out. Both about the actual offence and the police actions afterwards. That won't happen if a line is drawn and everybody moves on. Doing that achieve absolutely nothing.

Dominic I agree with with you 100%, it looks like this girl wasn't given the support she should of had from the police after the attack, and that needs to be investigated, problem is the lads defence would be, she said I could have a turn after my mate and worse etc etc. It would be good if the truth could be found out, and those involved would be brought to justice, but I cant see this happening.

WHL wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:24 pm Dominic I agree with with you 100%, it looks like this girl wasn't given the support she should of had from the police after the attack, and that needs to be investigated, problem is the lads defence would be, she said I could have a turn after my mate and worse etc etc. It would be good if the truth could be found out, and those involved would be brought to justice, but I cant see this happening.

And then she said "No".
Anything which took place after that - is rape.

Can I change my mind about having sex? What if we’ve already started making out or we’ve got our clothes off?

The law says everyone has the right to withdraw their consent at any time. This means you can stop at any time, whatever you’re doing. It might be awkward or frustrating for you or the other person but that’s not the point.… you have the legal right to say stop and no one should force you to continue or do something you’re not comfortable with.

It’s OK for me to keep going as long as the other person doesn’t say no, isn’t it?
The law says each of us is responsible for making sure our sexual partners are giving their free consent to what we want to do.

The law says you must have a ‘reasonable belief’ that the other person wants to do what you want to do. A
reasonable belief is something active. You must go on their body language as well as their words. If in doubt ask!

WHL wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:00 pm

PhotoLady wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:40 pm Finally!

No mention of any action being taken against the group of lads....

Its not that simple, remember they videoed her having consecial sex with a couple of those lads, it will be a nightmare trying to prove who she said yes to and who she said no to, glad the girl has cleared her name and won't have this hanging over her head, maybe the best solution is to draw a line under it and try to move on.

You must be reading about a different case that I've been following. The case I've been following, the girl was having consensual sex with her boyfriend when a second boy came into the room. The "boyfriend" then invited the second boy to film the sex act which the girl asked to stop.
The "boyfriend" then held her down while the second boy had sex with her. According to her testimony more boys came into the room and had none consensual sex with her
Now to me that's a totally different scenario to what you're saying happened in your version of events I've been reading about.

Jim B wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:53 am

WHL wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:00 pm

PhotoLady wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:40 pm Finally!

No mention of any action being taken against the group of lads....

Its not that simple, remember they videoed her having consecial sex with a couple of those lads, it will be a nightmare trying to prove who she said yes to and who she said no to, glad the girl has cleared her name and won't have this hanging over her head, maybe the best solution is to draw a line under it and try to move on.

You must be reading about a different case that I've been following. The case I've been following, the girl was having consensual sex with her boyfriend when a second boy came into the room. The "boyfriend" then invited the second boy to film the sex act which the girl asked to stop.
The "boyfriend" then held her down while the second boy had sex with her. According to her testimony more boys came into the room and had none consensual sex with her
Now to me that's a totally different scenario to what you're saying happened in your version of events I've been reading about.

I think you will find that isnt exactly how things happened, several of the lads were filming on their phone's, and the videos were put on social media.
Driving to work to day I was listening to local radio, they were interviewing the girls lawyer, she was very clear on what happened, after the event the girl did not claim she was raped, in fact it was the doctor who examined her, who told the police, they thought rape might be involved, it was only on her third interview to the police , that the girl told them she was raped, this is from the girls lawyer speaking today on radio.
Personally I think she was raped by the others and she was let down by the police, my comment about drawing a line under it and moving on, was on my basis that another trail would be very difficult to bring any prosecutions, it could drag on for years, she is leaving herself open to have a dozen different lawyers integrating her in court, with the out come not guaranteed, does she want to put herself through all that, the girls lawyer today said they didnt know whether they would seek another trail. hopefully lessons will be learned on how to deal with rape victims,

WHL
We'll have to agree to disagree.
I've read the transcripts which bear out what I wrote.
Aren't you surprised how quickly the Supreme Court set aside the original judgement, it shows what a poor decision the original decision was. I've waited longer for a meal.

The fact also remains, that whatever had happened to the poor girl previously, it seems that she was gang raped and under such circumstances, must have been traumatised by what had happened to her. She must have gone to the police expecting them to help her.
What happened to her at their hands was medieval, except she wasn't physically tortured.
I hope that all the officers who were complicit in this are going to be punished in due course and there should be a programne of re education for all station officers on how to treat females who come to them for help or for safety reasons.
In particular, those police officers who are stationed in popular tourist areas, must be selected and trained to deal with all kinds of tourists. Ideally, some of them should have a reasonable command of a foreign European language or Russian. In Agia Napa, a knowledge of English would be advisable.
Also the judges in the lower courts who dealt with the girl, should be disciplined or removed from the judges panel. Cyprus can't afford to have anymore bad publicity connected with tourists. Not if they are hoping to increase the numbers who may come to Cyprus for a holiday.
Dee

Kili01 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:55 pmI hope that all the officers who were complicit in this are going to be punished in due course

I would imagine it's the procedures that need changing i.e. video taped recordings, legal representation etc.

Kili01 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:55 pmand there should be a programne of re education for all station officers on how to treat females who come to them for help or for safety reasons.

Since this indident a number of officers underwent additional training regards sexual assualt cases with police experts being brought over from the UK. It's a good start and should be expanded.

Kili01 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:55 pmIdeally, some of them should have a reasonable command of a foreign European language or Russian. In Agia Napa, a knowledge of English would be advisable.

From what i've seen the majority of officers in Ayia Napa can speak English just fine.

More officers are needed in the summer months.

Cheers

Steve

Thanks Steve for your reply. Its good that efforts to improve the situation where police interact with the tourists have been made. Hopefully this will continue. I'm surprised if the police who dealt with this British girl at the time didn't know that she should have been allowed to have a translator and a lawyer present, before pressuring her to sign a statement.
I wonder if in a case as sensitive as a rape, that there isn't a requirement for a female police officer to be present?
Dee

Kili01 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:20 am I'm surprised if the police who dealt with this British girl at the time didn't know that she should have been allowed to have a translator and a lawyer present, before pressuring her to sign a statement.

It was the contention of the interviewing police officer and witness that she had been informed of her rights and need for a lawyer.
They claimed she rejected this - threw the information at them and stated that she had messaged her mother, a lawyer.
She also noted in her statement that she had been informed of her rights.

Clearly the Appeals Court found issues with this and in any case issues with the fact the she had basically come
to the station that day as a victim but ended up in a very different situation some hours later.

There was also an issue according to the Appeal Court regards the way EU law covering interviews had been translated into local law.

That's the reason I mentioned looking at the procedures and adding videod interviews which IMO should be brought in without delay.

Kili01 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:20 amI wonder if in a case as sensitive as a rape, that there isn't a requirement for a female police officer to be present?

A female welfare officer was present during the interviews according to the evidence and not disputed.

I certainly hope that lessons are learnt and improvements made asap - regardless of tourist/local or female/male.

Cheers

Steve

Happy in Cyprus wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:54 am

Kili01 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:55 pmCyprus can't afford to have anymore bad publicity connected with tourists. Not if they are hoping to increase the numbers who may come to Cyprus for a holiday. Dee

Won't make a scrap of difference. All kinds of awful things happen to tourists all over the World. As they say, today's news, tomorrow's chip paper. How many young backpackers have been abducted and murdered in Australia? Too many. Does it enter the consciousness of tourists wanting to go on holiday to Australia? Not a bit.

A few years ago some on this forum claimed tourists would stop coming to Cyprus because a dog was thrown in a skip in Paralimni. Didn't make a scrap of difference.

Many people did boycott that particular hotel, as did many in Paphos when there was a case of a taverna owner and poisoned animals. Bad publicity does effect tourist numbers.

Thanks for that info, Steve. You seem to have access to far more information than I saw in print.But certainly from what I have read in newspapers, or seen otherwise in the media, the impression formed is where a traumatized young British girl was interviewed for 6 hours and pressured to sign a statement which she didn't understand. Without a lawyer to advise her and without a translator present. I think that in her position I might face the same fears.
The Supreme Court verdict makes it sound as if something may be done to improve the justice and fairness of the legal system.
Let's hope so!

Dee

Kili01 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:23 pm Thanks for that info, Steve. You seem to have access to far more information than I saw in print.But certainly from what I have read in newspapers, or seen otherwise in the media, the impression formed is where a traumatized young British girl was interviewed for 6 hours and pressured to sign a statement which she didn't understand. Without a lawyer to advise her and without a translator present. I think that in her position I might face the same fears.
The Supreme Court verdict makes it sound as if something may be done to improve the justice and fairness of the legal system.
Let's hope so!

Dee

No problem Dee - as happens things are not always as clear cut as reported - she was in the police station for six+ hours but not interviewed
for that length of time.

The Appeal Court has published their verdict in full which you can read here - it's long and in Greek but
translates ok.

Agree with your last paragraph - really hope things improve and some good comes out of this bad situation!

Cheers

Steve

Law Office team studies British woman’s gang rape case post top court’s decision

A Law Office team is now studying the Supreme Court’s decision to clear a young British woman of falsely claiming she was raped by 12 Israelis in Ayia Napa in 2019, according to Philenews.

On Monday, the top court quashed the conviction against the then 19-year-old woman who had been found guilty of public mischief after her rape accusation.

The team’s task is to decide whether fresh investigations into the case which is under the radar of the media both at home and abroad should resume.

The team is studying all statements that police investigators had taken, along with the three given by the young woman. There is also independent testimony from a doctor who was the first to examine the victim at the night of the gang rape.

The case could re-open if the legal standing on the gang rape accusations is strong enough, an insider said.

The young woman had told police she was attacked by up to 12 Israeli tourists in a hotel room in the holiday resort, but was charged with making the story up after signing a retraction statement 10 days later.

She was in a consensual relationship with one of the Israelis who was also 19, but told police he held her down while she was raped by a gang of 12 who also filmed it on their mobile phones.

The suspects were arrested but freed just days later and sent home.

Throughout numerous court hearings the woman maintained she was pressured by officers to withdraw the rape allegation.

https://in-cyprus.philenews.com/law-off ... -decision/

Anarita John wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:07 pm

Happy in Cyprus wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:54 am

Kili01 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:55 pmCyprus can't afford to have anymore bad publicity connected with tourists. Not if they are hoping to increase the numbers who may come to Cyprus for a holiday. Dee

Won't make a scrap of difference. All kinds of awful things happen to tourists all over the World. As they say, today's news, tomorrow's chip paper. How many young backpackers have been abducted and murdered in Australia? Too many. Does it enter the consciousness of tourists wanting to go on holiday to Australia? Not a bit.

A few years ago some on this forum claimed tourists would stop coming to Cyprus because a dog was thrown in a skip in Paralimni. Didn't make a scrap of difference.

Many people did boycott that particular hotel, as did many in Paphos when there was a case of a taverna owner and poisoned animals. Bad publicity does effect tourist numbers.

The courts should impose heavy fines/sentences for any one involved in animal cruelty,
boycotting, hotels/restaurant's etc, only affects the employees who desperately need their work, to provide for their family's, they are totally innocent in all this, and shouldn't be punished.