Paphos Life

The following is an extract from the Brewery's job advert that arrived on my Facebook news feed this morning:

We are currently looking to employ a person to assist our pizza chef in our busy pizzeria. Preferably a male but all applications will be considered. Must be of EU Origin. No experience necessary as full training will be given. The role will include preparing food and learning how to make our very popular pizzas.

I was rather shocked to see the blatant gender bias expressed so openly when it is against EU law to do so. I'm also not sure about the EU origin requirement being permissible.

What does the team think?

Pete

I have more important things to be concerned about!?!?!?!

merchant_banker wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:13 am I have more important things to be concerned about!?!?!?!

Such as the barber on Russian Road or TellyPass?

Your earlier posts suggest otherwise!

Personally, I think the OP has a good point.

Got a feeling that its got to be open for both sexes, as for EU national, not a problem, as I think non EU persons are limited in what work they can do/hours etc.

The last few times that we have been there, all of the serving staff at Afrodites Rock are female, maybe there is a good reason for them needing a Male to assist making the pizzas?

I think the Brewery have realised the error of their ways and have now amended the advert removing the male preference and EU requirement and added the following post:

We apologise for any offence and the appearance of sexism. Traditionally pizza chefs are men due to the very heavy physical work involved in dough production but we are, as we say, prepared to accept anyone who can handle such activities. We have amended and re-posted the advertisement accordingly.

The matter is closed as far as I am concerned.

Pete

Flossie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:08 am Was it you who started the argument in the Jobs in Paphos Facebook page?!! Honestly there really are more important things to think about both in life and the world today so unless it's directly impacting you and your life I'd just get over it!

No it wasn't me.

There may be more important things in life but this is as valid an issue to discuss as any other appearing on this forum. If you do not wish to discuss it, you have that option.

However this is an important point, important enough for the Brewery to issue a retraction and apology.

As for your command to "just get over it", I'd already posted that the matter is closed for me. Why do you wish to cause an argument after the event?

Pete

Flossie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:08 am Was it you who started the argument in the Jobs in Paphos Facebook page?!! Honestly there really are more important things to think about...

Again, a quick reference to the postings suggests that people in glasshouses etc.

Personally, I find a discussion on gender bias in adverts a tad more important and interesting than, say, the wedding dress diet.....but each to his/her own priorities.

I've seen loads of job adverts in Cyprus for waitresses.

Perhaps the chef's mrs doesn't trust him?

Good to be reminded of the very special pizzas that are prepared there! Looking fwd to the next visit soon.

A.

Regardless of what the Law says about advertising and recruitment, once you give the applicants the courtesy of an interview you as the Employer can pick who you want. I used to hate our company HR department telling me as the Operations manger that I had to recruit all manner of ethnic groups and abilities and disabilities. Some jobs suit a particular person - if its a Male you want then that is what you should be allowed to recruit rather than waste everyones time and money on needless interviews.

bromerzz wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:03 pm Regardless of what the Law says about advertising and recruitment, once you give the applicants the courtesy of an interview you as the Employer can pick who you want. I used to hate our company HR department telling me as the Operations manger that I had to recruit all manner of ethnic groups and abilities and disabilities. Some jobs suit a particular person - if its a Male you want then that is what you should be allowed to recruit rather than waste everyones time and money on needless interviews.

This is exactly the situation my son has had to contend with in the Police Force. His progression has been thwarted on several occasions because of this 'PC' attitude.

What were the jobs that suited males rather than females, and white people rather than ethnic minorities?

I would have thought that the most important factors would be ability and personality.

Yawn!

I was asking Austin about their experience. It was my fault for not quoting them.

Hudswell wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:59 am Having lived in Italy...the birthplace of the Pizza, I can categorically state I never saw a female Pizza chef! I also noticed a complete absence of the "PC" police.....

Agree absolutely Hudswell. Never saw a female doing Pizza in North Italy where I used to live 4 years. Beside that, when I returned back to Cyprus I stopped eating Pizza here as the difference is so huge. Many here have no idea to do a nice thin base beside the topping is so poor quality. Coming to prices: I paid 6 Euro for Pizza with Parma Ham and the highest price was 10 Euro for Pizza with fresh truffles or Porcini (seps) when they were in season. (yummy)
But one cannot have everything....
Max

Austin7 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:29 am

Dominic wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:15 am I was asking Austin about their experience. It was my fault for not quoting them.

I'm confused - you weren't asking me

You are quite right. I really should stop trying to post while I am using my tablet. I need my keyboard.

So, let's take it from the top...

bromerzz wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:03 pm Regardless of what the Law says about advertising and recruitment, once you give the applicants the courtesy of an interview you as the Employer can pick who you want. I used to hate our company HR department telling me as the Operations manger that I had to recruit all manner of ethnic groups and abilities and disabilities. Some jobs suit a particular person - if its a Male you want then that is what you should be allowed to recruit rather than waste everyones time and money on needless interviews.

What were the jobs that suited males rather than females, and white people rather than ethnic minorities?

I would have thought that the most important factors would be ability and personality.

Happy in Cyprus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:55 am

Dominic wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:29 pm What were the jobs that suited males rather than females, and white people rather than ethnic minorities? I would have thought that the most important factors would be ability and personality.

In this particular instance, as Pete posted further up this thread (from the company advertising the job):

"Traditionally pizza chefs are men due to the very heavy physical work involved in dough production but we are, as we say, prepared to accept anyone who can handle such activities. We have amended and re-posted the advertisement accordingly".

Seems fair enough to me; they know what's required of an employee better than any of us do.

So do we agree that it would have been far better to have made the above statement in the original job ad? That described the job well and would have made it clear to unsuitable candidates of either sex. Equally it would have made it clear to relevant females, and I've no doubt that there are many, who are very capable of the hard physical work. It would have also been within the law which is the key issue: they broke the law - nothing to do with Political Correctness at all. I am quite outspoken against PC activities which are daft, but in this case I realised that it was not the root problem. It's a pity some of the contributors on here don't seem to understand that just because you don't like a process you can't just right it off as another PC issue.

Pete

PeteandSylvi wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:09 am

Happy in Cyprus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:55 am

Dominic wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:29 pm What were the jobs that suited males rather than females, and white people rather than ethnic minorities? I would have thought that the most important factors would be ability and personality.

In this particular instance, as Pete posted further up this thread (from the company advertising the job):

"Traditionally pizza chefs are men due to the very heavy physical work involved in dough production but we are, as we say, prepared to accept anyone who can handle such activities. We have amended and re-posted the advertisement accordingly".

Seems fair enough to me; they know what's required of an employee better than any of us do.

So do we agree that it would have been far better to have made the above statement in the original job ad? That described the job well and would have made it clear to unsuitable candidates of either sex. Equally it would have made it clear to relevant females, and I've no doubt that there are many, who are very capable of the hard physical work. It would have also been within the law which is the key issue: they broke the law - nothing to do with Political Correctness at all. I am quite outspoken against PC activities which are daft, but in this case I realised that it was not the root problem. It's a pity some of the contributors on here don't seem to understand that just because you don't like a process you can't just right it off as another PC issue.

Pete

I agree. If you blame everything on PC it becomes meaningless. Health and Safety has a similar problem.

Pete

Please permit me to disagree with your statement that this Company "broke the law" and your shock at seeing "this blatant gender bias". Reading the original advert whilst it is quite clear there was preference for a male applicant it nevertheless was qualified by the use of the words "but all applicants will be considered" thus making it arguable that there was any overt gender bias. Regarding the "Must be of EU origin" statement a poster has already given a possible explanation for this terminology and is correct in the assumption. Non EU workers have limits placed on the type of work, hours etc they are permitted to undertake under Employment Law and Immigration Law and woe betide any employer found employing someone who is not entitled to be so - he/she is looking at a very hefty fine (the employer that is not the employed).

I applaud your defence of us females but however strong (physically) they may be I have yet to see females building roads, working on building sites and, in the case of the UK and other industrialised nations I dont think there are many females working in the mining industry etc nor can I see any sensible female wishing to do so. We faught long and hard to stop women and children being sent down the mines and up chimneys. That having been said I did know of one female "Factory Inspector", as they were then called, who was most adapt at hoping up ladders on building sites etc and who put the fear of God into most managers and owners alike when she descended on their companies.

The Company under discussion is endeavouring to run a business which gives employment to others and service to the general populace and, for my part, I do feel they and others like them can well do without well meaning people scrutinising each and every word used in advertising etc in the event they may or may not be "breaking the law"

As any law student can tell you the underlying principle of good law is "Equity is a shield and not a sword"

Rita