Confused dot com

Whatever your political persuasion, defend your corner here. All we ask is that you voice YOUR opinion, rather than just post a link to a half hour youtube video. Also, we want you to win your debate by the strength of your argument. Attacking your opponent weakens your argument.
Termites Dream
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Termites Dream » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:46 pm

Jim B wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:43 pm
TD
So you're quite happy to take the gamble with the wellbeing of your relation; that's nice but what's the benefits for that risk? There are already comments about drug shortages through people hoarding.
Who was the guy talking on YouTube, yesterday the spokespersons for the Freight Association and the Hauliers Association were on both BBC and Sky and both gave a totally contradictory view.
There were thousands of Leavers commenting on Yellowhammer yesterday, laughing off the concerns of water shortages, of course it wasn't the shortage of water per se but the chemicals to purify it. You couldn't make it up.
Jim
Jim

I cannot gamble or pass because we have a Parliamentary system and it is out of our hands.
I do not know who was on the Youtube video and that is why I pass no comment. I suspect it is genuine but it could be a fake, but somebody may know him, if as he claims, he was on Sky News. I would be interested if the measures he claims have been taken appears elsewhere. Your other remarks I have already addressed in my opener.

Jim B
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jim B » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:51 pm

Termites Dream wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:46 pm
Jim B wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:43 pm
TD
So you're quite happy to take the gamble with the wellbeing of your relation; that's nice but what's the benefits for that risk? There are already comments about drug shortages through people hoarding.
Who was the guy talking on YouTube, yesterday the spokespersons for the Freight Association and the Hauliers Association were on both BBC and Sky and both gave a totally contradictory view.
There were thousands of Leavers commenting on Yellowhammer yesterday, laughing off the concerns of water shortages, of course it wasn't the shortage of water per se but the chemicals to purify it. You couldn't make it up.
Jim
Jim

I cannot gamble or pass because we have a Parliamentary system and it is out of our hands.
I do not know who was on the Youtube video and that is why I pass no comment. I suspect it is genuine but it could be a fake, but somebody may know him, if as he claims, he was on Sky News. I would be interested if the measures he claims have been taken appears elsewhere. Your other remarks I have already addressed in my opener.
TD
Those who voted Brexit gambled that they would at least maintain the status quo or eventually better their position; those who voted to remain were satisfied with the way things were; that's where the gambling comes into it.
All you have really done is suggest that everything in Yellowhammer is Project Fear and like Lincoln have not provided any positives or benefits that Brexit will provide. Are you another multi millionaire with an offshore hedge fund because they're the only people who are going to gain from Brexit as far as I can see?

Jim

Termites Dream
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Termites Dream » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:00 pm

Jim

I just don't suffer your fears....sorry.

I will use the language I use, and you can assume what you like.

Jim B
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jim B » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:39 pm

TD
I don't assume anything, I can read clearly what is written. Try re-reading your posts.

It's a pity you don't suffer my fears, there's every possibility the country wouldn't be in the mess it's in if you did.

Jim

Maggie B
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Maggie B » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:14 pm

I have so so tried to absorb all of the above comments with an open mind.. . . . . .as that is where my mind has been for several months.

However, I still see benefits for both sides' opinions!

I have to say though. . . . . . .it looks to me like 'a deal' would be better than NO deal for us (the UK) and the whole of Europe.

Your discussions have actually helped 'slightly' in my quandary but, I can't help thinking the Boris Boy may have improved our negotiation power in a small way. . . . . Compared to the former Prime Minister's? 🤔 In my opinion, she did not push enough.

Maggie B.

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Jimgward
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jimgward » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:50 pm

Ian Duncan Smith (IDS) Spoke yesterday, about how YellowHammer was all innacurate and how the port of Calais had built a holding are 40 miles from Calais, so not flow interruption would occur. IDS claimed that meant no lorries would be held up, so medicines and goods would have smooth entry.

He didn’t have the brains to realise that this would only affect goods going into Europe and not goods coming into the UK, where congestion would be had at Dover and Calais. He is either stupid or a liar. I know for a fact, that goods will not flow under no-deal, as they do know. It’s impossible for that to be the case.

Les Bean
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Les Bean » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:51 pm

Maggie write down the pros and cons for both sides as you see them and how they affect yourself and your family. I find this helps when trying to choose between 2 things where the choice is difficult

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Happy in Cyprus
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:24 am

Jimgym wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:24 pm
According to Michael Gove...it is a "worst case scenario".
Ah, so it must be true then :lol:

I would no more trust Gove than his partner in crime, Boris.

K Turvey
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by K Turvey » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:29 am

Happy in Cyprus wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:26 am
In any business which imports and exports, a No Deal will have a BIG impact, particularly if that business is located in the UK.

One of our significant manufacturers is located in the UK and we anticipate their prices to us rising by at least 10% in the event of a no-deal: 6% Import Duty in Cyprus + costs associated with import and Customs clearance. A speedy 3-4 days transit without paperwork now will turn into something much more troublesome. To that end we are now actively sourcing elsewhere. I have asked our manufacturer what their intentions are in the event of a No Deal...but did not receive a reply. As they are a colossal exporter to Europe, a No Deal will have a very significant impact on them.
So Brexit its the end of the road for Lidl and Aldi in the UK, although I can't remember see anything as such on their TV adverts

The only place that still asks for paperwork is good old Cyprus, everywhere else the modern world does everything electronically, so in reality that is a myth that Brexit will prolong importation due to paperwork

The bottom line is those of us who live outside the UK and do not pay any to the HMRC will not be directly impacted by Brexit.

K Turvey
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by K Turvey » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:48 am

Jim B wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:49 am
Maggie
Our daughter recently started work as a research scientist at Oxford University joining a team looking into cures for Alzheimer's. She was on the phone the other night to her Mum bemoaning the fact that Brexit is affecting their team and they may be shut down.
It's just a little insight into how Brexit is affecting lives.
If the UK leaves on the 31st October that's not the end of it, it's the start of years of austerity. I lived through that in the fifties and sixties and cannot comprehend why people would want to go back to the way many of us had to live then.
Can anyone who supports Brexit, hand on heart tell me how they were personally detrimentally affected by the UK being a member of the EU, there's nothing tangible I can think of. My life at work was improved, the area where I lived received investment that we would never have received if left to the UK government.
The only person who can answer your question is yourself.

Jim
Has your daughter been told her department is closing officially due to Brexit
Personally the 70's were far worse with power cuts, Unions and Glam Rock
Its not so long ago this country "Cyprus" was on its knees, but recovered.

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Jimgward
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jimgward » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:56 am

K Turvey wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:29 am
Happy in Cyprus wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:26 am
In any business which imports and exports, a No Deal will have a BIG impact, particularly if that business is located in the UK.

One of our significant manufacturers is located in the UK and we anticipate their prices to us rising by at least 10% in the event of a no-deal: 6% Import Duty in Cyprus + costs associated with import and Customs clearance. A speedy 3-4 days transit without paperwork now will turn into something much more troublesome. To that end we are now actively sourcing elsewhere. I have asked our manufacturer what their intentions are in the event of a No Deal...but did not receive a reply. As they are a colossal exporter to Europe, a No Deal will have a very significant impact on them.
So Brexit its the end of the road for Lidl and Aldi in the UK, although I can't remember see anything as such on their TV adverts

The only place that still asks for paperwork is good old Cyprus, everywhere else the modern world does everything electronically, so in reality that is a myth that Brexit will prolong importation due to paperwork

The bottom line is those of us who live outside the UK and do not pay any to the HMRC will not be directly impacted by Brexit.
You seem to ignore the fact that the UK would have NO trading agreement with the EU so EVERY shipment would need additional paperwork for WTO rules and payment of tariffs on all goods to conform. These tariffs vary from 10% to 50% as far as I can see.... so do you think customs can wave everyone through, as they do now?

Jim B
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jim B » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:26 pm

K Turvey wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:48 am
Jim B wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:49 am
Maggie
Our daughter recently started work as a research scientist at Oxford University joining a team looking into cures for Alzheimer's. She was on the phone the other night to her Mum bemoaning the fact that Brexit is affecting their team and they may be shut down.
It's just a little insight into how Brexit is affecting lives.
If the UK leaves on the 31st October that's not the end of it, it's the start of years of austerity. I lived through that in the fifties and sixties and cannot comprehend why people would want to go back to the way many of us had to live then.
Can anyone who supports Brexit, hand on heart tell me how they were personally detrimentally affected by the UK being a member of the EU, there's nothing tangible I can think of. My life at work was improved, the area where I lived received investment that we would never have received if left to the UK government.
The only person who can answer your question is yourself.

Jim
Has your daughter been told her department is closing officially due to Brexit
Personally the 70's were far worse with power cuts, Unions and Glam Rock
Its not so long ago this country "Cyprus" was on its knees, but recovered.
Yes. Simple answer. Just Google Job Losses due to Brexit and see what pops up; nearly half a million and we haven't left yet.

I don't know where you get the idea about paperless customs clearance and to suggest those of us who live outside the UK won't be directly affected; are you serious? Ask all those people running round trying to get MU3 documents If they're affected. Or the pound losing over 12% of its value, has that not had an affect?


Jim

The Aquila
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by The Aquila » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:20 pm

I think it’s like this Maggie:

Remain Voters = we’re all doomed
Brexit Voters = don’t worry, about a thing, every little thing gonna be alright.

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Jimgward
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jimgward » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:29 pm

Remain voters = Meerkats
Leave Voters = Lemmings

Firefly
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Firefly » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:36 pm

Looking at all this another way.

If you go to your doctor because something is wrong with you, and you then have a prescription for medication, it will have a listing of possible side effects. In the main some will not affect you at all, some lesser ones might, some may make you ill, or rarely even very ill. Do you then take the medication or not ?

As with Brexit, the voters were given a choice of put up with it, i.e. remain, or do something about it, vote leave. We did vote leave, now do we look at the side effects with horror, because taking the medication, i.e. actually leaving the EU MIGHT make us very ill, ( albeit a rare side effect ) or do we take it in the belief that at the end of the day, it will make us better with very little problem at all ? Because if you do not take the medication, your condition will get worse.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Jim B
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jim B » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:52 pm

Firefly wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:36 pm
As with Brexit, the voters were given a choice of put up with it,..........
Jackie
Please would you clarify what you "put up with", did it keep you awake at night; was it sovereignty, immigration, the European Court?

Jim

Firefly
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Firefly » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:14 pm

Nothing kept me awake at night, I never implied that anything did.

I, and millions of others, are sick of EU rules and regulations that we, in the UK must live by, rather than our own laws, made by our government. Sovereignty, immigration, the European Court, all included.

Millions paid into the EU when it should fund our failing NHS amongst other things. it's our money, tax payers money, it should be spent here.

We are slaughtering badgers, I know, a minor thing to most, (even though most TB is spread from cattle to cattle) BUT, I understand from my M.P. that the EU will not allow vaccination of cattle against TB. How many more minor 'regulations' are there that the average person knows nothing about.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Jimgward
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Jimgward » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:39 pm

More rubbish re EU regulations - most of which we contributed to;

Re TB in ~cattle, read this - https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -bovine-tb

It confirms we are developing inoculations for cattle..... they are NOT banned by the EU.... just like bendy bananas and the other lies propagated.

Firefly
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Firefly » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:48 pm

Jimgw

I had to laugh, the article you refer to states.

"Use of cattle vaccination will also require acceptance by the EU. While those negotiations are outside the scope of evidence, further research and development will be required to support the case for acceptance of this control measure e.g. data from its use under UK field conditions."
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Les Bean
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Re: Confused dot com

Post by Les Bean » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:37 pm

Firefly wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:36 pm
Looking at all this another way.

If you go to your doctor because something is wrong with you, and you then have a prescription for medication, it will have a listing of possible side effects. In the main some will not affect you at all, some lesser ones might, some may make you ill, or rarely even very ill. Do you then take the medication or not ?

As with Brexit, the voters were given a choice of put up with it, i.e. remain, or do something about it, vote leave. We did vote leave, now do we look at the side effects with horror, because taking the medication, i.e. actually leaving the EU MIGHT make us very ill, ( albeit a rare side effect ) or do we take it in the belief that at the end of the day, it will make us better with very little problem at all ? Because if you do not take the medication, your condition will get worse.
But many of us had no need to go to the doctors 😂

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