Paphos Life

Dominic wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:36 pm My objection in that thread was about the claim that there had been three votes on Brexit.

Anyway, what about my point that only 43% of the voting population voted for us to enter Europe in the first place?

The point was that there was a claim that 52% of the population voted to leave in 2016, I'm not claiming 67% of the population voted to remain in 1974 and if it was only 43% then fine but I'm not the one making outlandish claims.
What I do know is that the referendum in 1974 was for deeper integration which led us to the EU and I do remember voting for it. Prior to the vote I had worked in Europe and saw that they were light years ahead of the UK Construction Industry in both safety and conditions and I believed we should be treated the same instead of as an expendable workforce.

Jim

So basically the only thing you have an issue with is that the words "who voted" were missing. The sentence should have read:

"52% of the population who voted, voted to leave in 2016".

Ok, so why is that so outlandish? If 30% of the population didn't bother to vote, how can you assume that all of them would have voted to remain?

You could also argue that while a minority of the total population voted to leave, an even smaller minority of the total population voted to remain.

I never assumed anything and I never suggested everyone who didnt vote would have voted remain but I would suggest those who were driven to leave were more than likely to have voted than not.
Why shouldn't I be pedantic, every time I post something I have a legion of Pedants checking everything I write ( evidence above). I'm not arguing with your figures as I can't because what you wrote is correct while the comments written by the.other poster were not but it's me who's being pulled about it, not him.

Jim

Thank you Dominic and i stand corrected on the phrase used, I also commend you on the point of the vote to go in the EEC. We both certainly agree on the point of the people who did not vote - perhaps it would have been a remain vote that won or perhaps it would have been a larger victory for leave, the fact is we will never know and I still stand by my point that it is no good calling leave voters effectively thick and blaming leave voters for Brexit happening, blame the voters who did bother voting as they are the people that would have decided the UK’s fate.

The GE in my view showed two things firstly the electorate did not trust JC and secondly staunch labour leavers wards realised that JC never had any intention of honouring the referendum result given JC and Labours objections at every turn (my personal opinion only for avoidance of doubt)

Dominic wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:06 pm This was the result of the 1975 vote:

67% in favour on a national turnout of 64%

[Src: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Unit ... %20support]


That means that of the total number of voters, only 43% voted to join the EC.

(64 / 100) * 67

So by your logic, we shouldn't even have been in the EU in the first place.

Joining the EEC was a parliamentary vote in 1973 under Ted Heath and the vote for deeper political and fiscal integration between European member states was a referendum in 1975 called by Harold Wilson. There was a majority in each of the four countries that voted for deeper integration.
That's how it happened,

There was a majority in the Brexit vote too. It just wasn't 50% of the total people eligible to vote. Neither votes were. That is my point.

Dominic wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:22 pm There was a majority in the Brexit vote too. It just wasn't 50% of the total people eligible to vote. Neither votes were. That is my point.

That's exactly what I've been saying in my posts and thanks Firefly for agreeing with me. My point has always been that although leave may have won they never had 52% of populations vote as LTD claimed and has since corrected.
I can't be clearer than that and if you read back over my posts they will confirm it.

Jim

Great Deal

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 1609344093


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... are_btn_fb

Jim

Dominic wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:36 pm So basically the only thing you have an issue with is that the words "who voted" were missing. The sentence should have read:

"52% of the population who voted, voted to leave in 2016".

Ok, so why is that so outlandish? If 30% of the population didn't bother to vote, how can you assume that all of them would have voted to remain?

You could also argue that while a minority of the total population voted to leave, an even smaller minority of the total population voted to remain.

Almost every country who have a referendum on such a momentous decision, either make the threshold 60 or 66% of the vote, or more than 50% of the voting population, rather than 50% of who vote!

Also, most countries hold a referendum, go off and find a solution, then have a second referendum to consolidate the result.

Like Ireland, Sweden and others.

Scotland had restrictions like this on it’s initial devolution referendum!

Firstly, the time to argue about the conditions of a referendum is before it happens, not once you lose.

Secondly, Ireland et al only "went off to find a solution" when they lost the initial referendum. It was hardly a matter of consolidating the result.

Thirdly, if 50% of the voting population is a requirement then we wouldn't even be in the EU, as that didn't happen.

Daughter just called, said they'd lost most of Amazon Prime programmes as there's now a restricted service due to changes after Brexit. They also received an email confirming this; she said it's not worth having now.

The thin end of the wedge.

Dominic wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:06 am Firstly, the time to argue about the conditions of a referendum is before it happens, not once you lose.

Secondly, Ireland et al only "went off to find a solution" when they lost the initial referendum. It was hardly a matter of consolidating the result.

Thirdly, if 50% of the voting population is a requirement then we wouldn't even be in the EU, as that didn't happen.

So, one cannot argue that the conditions were bot correct and therefore the entire country will never be behind it?

The ERG, had the referendum gone the other way, would still have pushed very hard to overturn it. As Farage also admitted.

This isn’t the end of the deal, but the beginning and I forecast that the outcome will be Scotland leaving the UK. NI joining with the South in a United Ireland and all of this within 10 - 15 years.

To be frank, if this results in a united Ireland I think that will be a result.

Personally, I very much doubt whether Ireland will be reunited, even in the lifetime of my grandchildren who are in their 30s. After all, the problem goes back to the days of the Battle of the Boyne between Charles II and William of Orange. If they cannot settle it in that time, I do not think they will be able to settle it at all. Even if there were a union, there would still be bloodshed between the Catholics and Protestants, most of whom are not Irish at all but of Scottish descent. The latter are more militant.

I've only visited Scotland twice in my life, both times the rain fell like stair rods. I don't think that I will miss it.

K-Noble wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:33 pm

Jimgward wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:31 am This isn’t the end of the deal, but the beginning and I forecast that the outcome will be Scotland leaving the UK.

Wow a country being led by Jimmy Krankie - Good Luck

On the plus side she's not a charlatan, a liar and a blustering imbecile like the PM in Downing Street.




Jim

K-Noble wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:33 pm

Jimgward wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:31 am This isn’t the end of the deal, but the beginning and I forecast that the outcome will be Scotland leaving the UK.

Wow a country being led by Jimmy Krankie - Good Luck

Is that humour?

Sturgeon has been FAR better handling this crisis than Johnson or Handcock

K-Noble wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:33 pm

Jimgward wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:31 am This isn’t the end of the deal, but the beginning and I forecast that the outcome will be Scotland leaving the UK.

Wow a country being led by Jimmy Krankie - Good Luck

What a singularly stupid comment.....

Firefly wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:58 pm I've only visited Scotland twice in my life, both times the rain fell like stair rods. I don't think that I will miss it.

Recommend you try a 3rd time Firefly Beautiful country and not as wet as where I am

Slightly off topic, we had a wonderful time in Scotland. The weather was glorious mostly, although I do recall one day when we had all 4 seasons! Hopefully we will get back there in the not too distant future!