Paphos Life

Jimgym wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:55 pm

Jim B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:58 am

Jimgym wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:15 am

As I didn't vote in either the referendum or the election, I cannot quite see why you say that? I support the majority vote, and respect it. Leave won, end of. Tories won election, end of. It's not difficult.

If you supported the majority vote you would be supporting the 57% (or thereabouts) who voted against "Let's Get Brexit Done" because 57% is more than 43%.
Very simple maths.

Jim

Did the 57% win more seats in Parliament? Did they win more votes in the referendum? Now that is a very simple question. I respect the majority, ie the side that won. I also respect their decision.

No Alan you support an undemocratic system that allows a minority to dictate policy.

Jackie,
No eventually, maybe not in our life times but the pendulum will swing. The majority of the younger generation are aware they've been sold out by Leavers who in the main can't provide a reason for leaving except probide stock answers that have no substance.


Jim

JimB,
Not sure that you can count all labour votes as being against Brexit in your calculation (if you did) as there are definitely some labour supporters who were also Brexit supporters.

Varky

Lots of Labour supporters are pro Brexit, the huge swings in the North West from Labour to Conservative prove it. One seat I understand which has been Labour since the end of WW11, is now Conservative.

Jim B

Guess work again.

Jim B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:55 pm

Jimgym wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:55 pm

Jim B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:58 am

If you supported the majority vote you would be supporting the 57% (or thereabouts) who voted against "Let's Get Brexit Done" because 57% is more than 43%.
Very simple maths.

Jim

Did the 57% win more seats in Parliament? Did they win more votes in the referendum? Now that is a very simple question. I respect the majority, ie the side that won. I also respect their decision.

No Alan you support an undemocratic system that allows a minority to dictate policy.

Jackie,
No eventually, maybe not in our life times but the pendulum will swing. The majority of the younger generation are aware they've been sold out by Leavers who in the main can't provide a reason for leaving except probide stock answers that have no substance.


Jim

Oh dear Jim, your grapes are incredibly sour. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that had Remain won, as you would prefer, you would be leading the charge saying that it was democracy in action and Leave voters should accept that.

However, 57% of the electorate did not vote to remain in Europe. That wasn't an option in the election. And besides, if Labour and Libdems wanted to make it all about staying in Europe, all they would have had to do is organise themselves properly, and force people to vote tactically by stepping down in seats where they would have come third.

But they didn't. So blame them if you are going to blame anybody.

[quote=Dominic post_id=105726 time=1580580040 user_id=157]
However, 57% of the electorate did not vote to remain in Europe. That wasn't an option in the election. And besides, if Labour and Libdems wanted to make it all about staying in Europe, all they would have had to do is organise themselves properly, and force people to vote tactically by stepping down in seats where they would have come third.

But they didn't. So blame them if you are going to blame anybody.
[/qu3ote]

You could say that about the 32% of Tories who voted Remain; I would hazard a guess that many of those still voted Tory rather than vote for another party. I did put the precursor "thereabouts" on all the percentages I posted knowing that would be the first point I would be picked up on.
You are correct about the Liberals and Labour, they had the Tories on the ropes in October and could have forced them into a second referendum but unfortunately the vanity of the two leaders got in the way of common sense.

The country is now entrenched between two groups and this won't go away any time soon.

Jim

Firefly wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:20 pm Disgraceful, they should be ashamed, but probably won't be.

Unfortunately, Brexit Leave has given a platform to racist and overly-nationalistic twats to hang their politics on. It is by no means the behaviour of the majority, but it has allowed people who were ‘quietly’ racist to open their mouths and state opinions that 5 years ago all would have condemned but now are acceptable to far too many.

Wait until our hospitals are short-staffed in the sub-£23,000 category (porters, cleaners, orderlies) with no influx from other countries happy to work for a lower salary. We will soon find the lower-aid jobs will cripple the likes to retail, food and hospitality in London, agriculture, Social Care, Health and much more.

Jim B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:47 am

Jimgym wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:48 pm I’ve no doubt whatsoever that you’d be singing a VERY different tune if the vote was to Remain. Just because you disagree with the result doesn’t mean the system is broken.

And I've no doubt whatsoever you would be singing a VERY different tune too if the result was reversed. If our voting system was fair we would have Proportional Representation but we have a loaded system that favours the Tories.
As I said in earlier posts the "Lets Get Brexit Done" supporters were only around 43% of the popular vote in the GE which is a minority and is not democratic by any stretch of the imagination. What I'm saying is that our democratic system is not democratic according to the definition of democracy.

Jim

I did notice the system being loaded in favour of the Tories, between 1997 and 2010(?), when Blair and Co were in power.

outasite wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:25 pm

Jim B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:47 am

Jimgym wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:48 pm I’ve no doubt whatsoever that you’d be singing a VERY different tune if the vote was to Remain. Just because you disagree with the result doesn’t mean the system is broken.

And I've no doubt whatsoever you would be singing a VERY different tune too if the result was reversed. If our voting system was fair we would have Proportional Representation but we have a loaded system that favours the Tories.
As I said in earlier posts the "Lets Get Brexit Done" supporters were only around 43% of the popular vote in the GE which is a minority and is not democratic by any stretch of the imagination. What I'm saying is that our democratic system is not democratic according to the definition of democracy.

Jim

I did notice the system being loaded in favour of the Tories, between 1997 and 2010(?), when Blair and Co were in power.

Very observant Outasite. Did you also notice they were changing more ward boundaries in the last parliament which would have been very favourable to them but they had to call an election before they could implement the changes. Google it.

Jim

Dominic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:05 pm Just thought I would leave this here...

Reminds me of some of the expats living over here

Jim B wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:36 pm

outasite wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:25 pm

Jim B wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:47 am

And I've no doubt whatsoever you would be singing a VERY different tune too if the result was reversed. If our voting system was fair we would have Proportional Representation but we have a loaded system that favours the Tories.
As I said in earlier posts the "Lets Get Brexit Done" supporters were only around 43% of the popular vote in the GE which is a minority and is not democratic by any stretch of the imagination. What I'm saying is that our democratic system is not democratic according to the definition of democracy.

Jim

I did notice the system being loaded in favour of the Tories, between 1997 and 2010(?), when Blair and Co were in power.

Very observant Outasite. Did you also notice they were changing more ward boundaries in the last parliament which would have been very favourable to them but they had to call an election before they could implement the changes. Google it.

Jim

Nope. Didn't notice that in the least. However that would have been a moot point with me, as I have always voted Tory mainly due to the horrendous mess that every single Labour government has left the UK in my lifetime, and I have no doubts that a Marxist prime minister, a Stalinist chancellor and a racist home secretary would have done exactly the same. However I do wait with bated breath that Boris will live up to his promises and get us extricated in good order from HiC's favourite topic.

How you vote is entirely up to you but just to point out that the mess the Labour government left was entirely down to Bankers greed and they're not very well known to be left wing zealots, are they?
Ive voted for what or who was best for the people and the country, be it Labour, Liberal or even Conservative (believe it or not).

Jim

Jim B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:15 am How you vote is entirely up to you but just to point out that the mess the Labour government left was entirely down to Bankers greed and they're not very well known to be left wing zealots, are they?
Ive voted for what or who was best for the people and the country, be it Labour, Liberal or even Conservative (believe it or not).

Jim

You could add that under Labour, schools and the NHS performed much better. Also, that the UK’s debt has doubled under the Tories - so much for solving problems by austerity - the promise of Osborne!

Don't forget that the NHS and Social Security were both kicked off in 1948 by a Labour Government, a rather left-wing one, at that, with the likes of Bevan, Attlee, Cripps et al. In 1947, they also raised the school leaving-age to 15.

I read an interesting post regarding people who will not accept reality.
Basically it said that when people have allowed themselves to be groomed and brainwashed for over forty years by a right wing press it's very difficult to get them to accept actual facts.
As an example, the Tories are responsible fot over two thirds of Government borrowing since1946 and have more or less doubled the National Debt since they came into power in 2010.
Although all the facts are available people want to believe what they want to believe.

Jim

Jim B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:15 am How you vote is entirely up to you but just to point out that the mess the Labour government left was entirely down to Bankers greed and they're not very well known to be left wing zealots, are they?
Ive voted for what or who was best for the people and the country, be it Labour, Liberal or even Conservative (believe it or not).

Jim

What about Brown selling off half our gold reserve, when gold prices were at their lowest? Who's fault was that?

Firefly wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:36 pm Varky

Lots of Labour supporters are pro Brexit, the huge swings in the North West from Labour to Conservative prove it. One seat I understand which has been Labour since the end of WW11, is now Conservative.

Jim B

That does not mean to say that some who still voted labour were not brexiteers.

Quite true.

Dominic wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:10 pm

Jim B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:15 am How you vote is entirely up to you but just to point out that the mess the Labour government left was entirely down to Bankers greed and they're not very well known to be left wing zealots, are they?
Ive voted for what or who was best for the people and the country, be it Labour, Liberal or even Conservative (believe it or not).

Jim

What about Brown selling off half our gold reserve, when gold prices were at their lowest? Who's fault was that?

If you read the below article ( which is one of many on the subject) it may clarify a few points on the gold sell off by Brown. I'm not a financial wizard like some but it appears that it was a financially sound decision at the time and wasn't a big a disaster as the Tories try to make out. As I said in my above post, the right wing press are experts at brainwashing and grooming.

25% of British gold reserve was sold off in 1970 but no one mentions that do they?


Jim


https://www.ft.com/content/5788dbac-768 ... 144feabdc0


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/fi ... ld-5614853

Varky wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:23 pm

Firefly wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:36 pm Varky

Lots of Labour supporters are pro Brexit, the huge swings in the North West from Labour to Conservative prove it. One seat I understand which has been Labour since the end of WW11, is now Conservative.

Jim B

That does not mean to say that some who still voted labour were not brexiteers.

Varky
I already answered this point and if you read the report by Labour it was more a case of Labour voters (I think the the figure was in the region of 1.2 million) staying at home rather than huge swings to the Tories. I know many were reluctant to vote for Corbyn and as you say many Brexit supporters abstained rather than vote for the Tories. At the end of the day a 1.2% swing isn't that big but the 1.2 million abstentions made it look better than it really was.

Jim