Paphos Life

Don't believe everything you are told....

surreyboy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:33 am If you don't (yet) have the title deeds you are not (yet) the legal owner! Simple.

Are you not the legal owner or can you just not able to prove that you are?

Well you could try arguing that point in the Cyprus Courts, but I reckon your chances of winning are about on a par with winning the lottery!

I was told that by a respected Architect and civil engineer, I think he knows more then most.

WHL wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:52 am I was told that by a respected Architect and civil engineer, I think he knows more then most.

What is it you were told?

All fingers and toes crossed for you HIC!

jeba wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:54 pm

WHL wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:52 am I was told that by a respected Architect and civil engineer, I think he knows more then most.

What is it you were told?

I was told that if you owned the land, you also owned what was on it....

Are we (you) going around in circles here?
Believe what you want to believe - go back to what I said earlier - try it out in a Cyprus court.

Expresspete wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:08 pm We used one of Paphos' major Estate Agents when we began sourcing a property at the turn of the year and we told them we would not buy without Title Deeds.
The EA then showed us 7 properties before we settled on a beautiful villa with a fantastic view but when our opening offer of €55k below the asking price was readily accepted, alarm bells began to ring. However, we were assured there were no problems and our lawyer wouldn't find any problems....Five weeks later our Solicitor came back with so many encumbrances, we could have physically moved a mountain before moving the legal obstacles that were tied with the property. Meanwhile, I still had to pay the Solicitor, the Surveyor, my flights and my accommodation because of their proverbial bull shine without recompense. We of course, did not persevere with the sale but sought another EA who, thankfully, had a different set of business ethics and we now relocate at the end of this month.
A month after withdrawing from our potential sale of the first villa, our original EA, re-advertised the same property and in its description said it had Title Deeds......

PM sent.

@ Jeanne and Lloyd: Thank you both for your enlightenment as regards the new 'Trapped Buyer' legislation and Title Deeds issues! I'm delighted to see that the new laws have been applied and are actually working, in terms of buyers finally getting their long-awaited Title Deeds!

Are the costs for the TDs still exorbitant (as prior, when coming through your Developer, who also added all THEIR legal fees etc to YOUR TDs bill)?

Cheers- AL

I have managed to sell on two small properties both without title deeds and indeed bought the one we am now living in then without deeds, a few years ago we obtained the deeds for this home, doing it ourselves no lawyers or agents needed, all sorted, you just have to be patient, nothing is stopping you from selling without deeds even if some think this is not allowed. It is..

Did we feel better receiving our land and title deeds?, well no, but a lot poorer though.

Allesley wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:15 pm I have managed to sell on two small properties both without title deeds and indeed bought the one we am now living in then without deeds,

Could you please share what measures you took to protect yourself against the risks of doing so?

jeba wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:16 pm

Allesley wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:15 pm I have managed to sell on two small properties both without title deeds and indeed bought the one we am now living in then without deeds,

Could you please share what measures you took to protect yourself against the risks of doing so?

What risks Jeba? Kindly clarify.
Geoff.

geoffreys wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:28 pm What risks Jeba? Kindly clarify.
Geoff.

E. g. that the seller isn´t really the owner, that he sells it to someone else as well, that he mortgages it without my consent, that he refuses to apply for any permits I might want (e. g. installing photovoltaic device, enlargements, alterations), that the property is burdened with any liabilities.

PaphosAL wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:01 pm @ Jeanne and Lloyd: Thank you both for your enlightenment as regards the new 'Trapped Buyer' legislation and Title Deeds issues! I'm delighted to see that the new laws have been applied and are actually working, in terms of buyers finally getting their long-awaited Title Deeds!

Are the costs for the TDs still exorbitant (as prior, when coming through your Developer, who also added all THEIR legal fees etc to YOUR TDs bill)?

Cheers- AL

Hi Al. The transfer tax is the first €85,000 at 3%, 85,001 to 170,000 at 5% and 170,001 upwards at 8%. Then a 50% discount is applied. The value to which these percentages are applied is the value of the property at the time of the purchase. They mostly look at the prices of similar or local properties and what they were selling for at that time to come to a figure. It's not an exact science and we were charged much more than if it had been on the the real cost of purchase. The new 2013 valuations are NOT used (they don't even refer to them) -we were told that these were for tax calculation purposes only.

Apart from a few developers who are well know for inflating costs, I think most are not too bad and the charges are generally only IPT (immovable property tax). This is a legal charge which can be claimed back and I know of a few people who have now successfully done this.

Jeanne

jeba wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:35 pm

geoffreys wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:28 pm What risks Jeba? Kindly clarify.
Geoff.

E. g. that the seller isn´t really the owner, that he sells it to someone else as well, that he mortgages it without my consent, that he refuses to apply for any permits I might want (e. g. installing photovoltaic device, enlargements, alterations), that the property is burdened with any liabilities.

OK, thanks.
In other words the same risks as doing it all thru a solicitor, but just cheaper.
So why use a solicitor, most of whome it seems from posts on the forums leave much to be desired!
Geoff.

Jeba good morning.

What risk's not sure what you mean, when you sell that's it, when you buy always best to get TD but not essential that I have found, it has obviously over the years become more of a question most seem to want answered, fact is usually you wait many years for full title deeds, not always of course but not unusual, this property we are in now waited 16 years, in the end they duly arrived without prompting or getting agents and lawyers involved. There is no law as far as I am aware that says you cannot sell on without deeds, only recently our neighbors sold, deeds were available at the last minute but not at the time of the property sale..

Yes developers will try the land tax scam, all you need to do (Thanks to Nigel) is to ask for the tax receipt they should have been given, ours could not so that bill was halved, usually there is some tax that you would need to pay, but ask for that receipt!

Although only used EA the once I found the chap we used honest, reliable, he worked very hard to find what I could afford and where we wished to live, and he told us what was what, they do a good job generally even if you resent paying their commissions.

geoffreys wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:51 am In other words the same risks as doing it all thru a solicitor, but just cheaper.
So why use a solicitor, most of whome it seems from posts on the forums leave much to be desired!
Geoff.

What do you mean? What does having no TDs to do with using a solicitor? What do you mean by solicitor? A notary, a lawyer, an attorney? What´s the diference under Cyriot law?

Hi all! We applied for our T.Ds in October 2015 and only now are they (supposedly) about to be delivered. At that time there was a further 50% reduction (on top of the 50% for everyone) for those properties for which VAT had been paid. Can anyone please confirm that that is still the case? Thank you in advance for any replies.