Paphos Life

Sweeping would probably have been a more appropriate word! So what I assume you're saying in a round about way is that "builders" voted for Brexit for the wrong reason & will not get paid more as their jobs will still be pinched by overseas workers?


Shane

Two separate arguments here I think Lloyd .

Having control of your borders is simply allowing in the people you want/need, and not all the ne'er do wells from all over the EU simply coming to Uk for the benefits.

Someone else here or on another forum (maybe Pete G?) made the point that - why are UK paying benefits to UK citizens who prefer to not work, when there are clearly plenty of jobs such as picking turnips, spuds and strawberries available, so shouldn't someone be addressing that and insisting that these people take this work instead of claiming benefits. Can't disagree with that.

The other angle is the EU 'rules' which state that any EU national is entitled to the benefits of the country to which they move. So forgive me if I'm being naive, but any Eastern European earning peanuts in Poland, Lithuania et al would move like a shot to U.K. where he/she would immediately be guaranteed a minimum wage, working tax credit, child benefit (even if that child were resident in Poland, Lithuania et al), housing benefit...........etc etc. Without the EU rules, that person would need to earn enough to actually keep himself and his family with no recourse to benefits for a proscribed period of time when they will have been deemed to have contributed to UK.com

You say that the diligent immigrants work, pay taxes , NI etc. No argument with that. On some forum or other I recently posted a link to a website, in a similar discussion, that clearly proved the level at which immigrants actually contributed to U.K.com. I will try to find it again, but it clearly showed that the majority of EU immigrants were actuallly a cost to U.K.com, because of (a) the benefits to which they were entitled thanks to the EU, and(b) because of the facilities to which they were entitled - schools, medical care, housing etc too. If I remember correctly the link was making the point that in fact local authorities were buckling under immigrants, as the taxes NI etc they paid went to government coffers , but most of the other benefits they received were borne by local authorities.

I have no problem with immigrants, what I have a problem with is ridiculous EU inequalities which see U.K.com flooded with economic migrants at a cost to the UK tax payers and a massive burden on schools, housing and medical care.

ApusApus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:24 pm Sweeping would probably have been a more appropriate word! So what I assume you're saying in a round about way is that "builders" voted for Brexit for the wrong reason & will not get paid more as their jobs will still be pinched by overseas workers?


Shane

No, not a sweeping statement at all. A statement based on my observations. You might not like it, but that is what it was.

Their jobs won't get pinched by anybody. I never said that. It would be nice if you actually read what I typed.

Dominic wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:38 pm

ApusApus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:24 pm Sweeping would probably have been a more appropriate word! So what I assume you're saying in a round about way is that "builders" voted for Brexit for the wrong reason & will not get paid more as their jobs will still be pinched by overseas workers?


Shane

No, not a sweeping statement at all. A statement based on my observations. You might not like it, but that is what it was.

Their jobs won't get pinched by anybody. I never said that. It would be nice if you actually read what I typed.

Careful, Dominic was an expert, if bored sweeper in his youth!!!

Ah but I wasn't bored, because I got to know the engineers and see how the stuff got made. It was like an episode of "How It Works" in real life.

Mark wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:46 pm Careful, Dominic was an expert, if bored sweeper in his youth!!!

Based on his observations, obviously!


Shane

Dominic wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:38 pm

ApusApus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:24 pm Sweeping would probably have been a more appropriate word! So what I assume you're saying in a round about way is that "builders" voted for Brexit for the wrong reason & will not get paid more as their jobs will still be pinched by overseas workers?


Shane

No, not a sweeping statement at all. A statement based on my observations. You might not like it, but that is what it was.

Their jobs won't get pinched by anybody. I never said that. It would be nice if you actually read what I typed.

No, I did read what you typed & I think I summed it up pretty well but you might not like it!


Shane

I never said their jobs would get pinched. They had jobs, they just weren't getting paid enough, in their eyes. So if you think you summed up what I said pretty well, you are mistaken.

There is absolutely no doubt that income, in all areas has suffered, partly recession, partly immigrants working for less, and not helped by the crazy and unfair zero hours contracts.

Immigrants, especially the skilled trades do not work for less, they are paid the same as their British counterparts; there are national agreements with specific hourly rates that I was alway paid. Immigrants working for less are generally unskilled and doing jobs you can't get Brits on Social Security to do. The low wages and zero hour contracts were introduced by management on a take it or leave it basis. There is an average annual shortfall of around 45 thousand trainee engineers in the UK, again caused by lack of investment by management and government. It's easy to blame all the ills of the UK on EU immigrants, we should start looking closer to home.

Jim

Employers in low skilled areas embraced zero hour contracts as it gave them total control. People like Mike Ashley runs a business making billions with staff working almost Dickensian conditions.

This is nothing to do with the eu.

Brexit: Poland aims to be big winner from battle for UK banking jobs
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 33191.html
Poland's government expects to attract around 25,000-30,000 jobs from Britain in the business services sector just this year...
The Association of Business Service Leaders in Poland is working on projects with seven big financial firms about shifting jobs from London, said the Association's managing director Pawel Panczyj. The focus is on middle office functions such as risk management and information technology.

“We are talking with banks, insurance institutions and investment funds who want to move their middle office abroad. The main factor behind their decision [now] is Brexit,” he told Reuters....

The Poles might leave picking English strawberries to the erm.... erm... who?!

So let me get this straight, Polish people working in the UK get all the rights and benefits of UK Citizens, including working tax credit, housing benefit, child benefit, sickness benefit....................

UK Citizens working in Poland get the equivalent of Polish Citizens?????????

So OK, maybe these Mega bankers won't need these benefits, but can someone explain how these Mega banks are going to pay UK Citizens sufficient to attract them to Poland???? And if theydo, where exactly is the money coming from??

Or is Poland set to be the the next plutocracy?

These are not mega bankers Smudger, they provide the support that Banks etc need, and many thousands of these jobs have allready relocated to Poland from throughout Europe, as the services can be provided at a lower cost.
It is highly unlikely that UK workers will transfer to Poland, the jobs will be filled locally.

Haven't big companies been outsourcing jobs, to places like India for example, for years now?

Ahhh, get it, it's jobs not people. Sorry folks, a senior moment

Jimgym wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:41 am Haven't big companies been outsourcing jobs, to places like India for example, for years now?

This is quite true. I've worked in I.T all my life, and in the 80s and 90s a lot of dev work was outsourced, with varying degrees of success.

Dominic wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:36 am

Jimgym wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:41 am Haven't big companies been outsourcing jobs, to places like India for example, for years now?

This is quite true. I've worked in I.T all my life, and in the 80s and 90s a lot of dev work was outsourced, with varying degrees of success.

As I thought, it has been happening long before Brexit. Yet that is being used as a convenient and cheap excuse by some to blame all the ills on. I recall speaking to someone in India on more than one occasion whilst calling my bank, a sometimes frustrating call!

I'm talking about Front End Engineering Design, not call centres; big difference.

Jim

UK Citizens working in Poland get the equivalent of Polish Citizens?????????

It's no different than what we took on when we came to Cyprus - but we were better off for it and survived successfully for 12yrs based on that principle. Working in Cyprus, paying into the social insurance fund, medical care when needed and entitlement to unemployment benefits as long as SI contributions had been made for a specific period.

Sorry, I'm catching up on threads here after being away....

Call centres were pushed overseas by many UK banks but later a lot realised they didn't work very well due to canned responses that didn't reflect the question in hand and of course, the difficulty in understanding someone speaking in a strong accent at the other end of a phone..... I can't recall the last time I phoned my online banking facility to be met by someone from India at the other end of the line. I was under the impression the majority in the financial markets realised it was a mistake on their part.