Confused dot com

Whatever your political persuasion, defend your corner here. All we ask is that you voice YOUR opinion, rather than just post a link to a half-hour youtube video. Politics can get a bit lively, and if you prefer a less combative debate, please post in the Politics for Moderates section instead.
Maggie B
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Confused dot com

Post by Maggie B »

I seriously don't know my arse from my elbow as far as Brexit is concerned. And, I make no apologies for admitting it. ๐Ÿค”

It's just mental. I am definitely not sitting on the fence here - I just don't know.

Maggie B

PS I have read every post . . posted by Man and Beast regarding this subject. ๐Ÿ™ˆ๐Ÿ™‰๐Ÿ™Š
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Post by Dominic »

Join the club. I just hope it all comes to a head by the end of October, come what may. Extending the madness beyond that is the worse case scenario. What will happen then at the end of January?
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Post by Maggie B »

Thank you for replying Dominic. I tend to think people appear to be 'one way or the other?'

But, nobody and I mean NO-ONE talks about Brexit at my work nowadays . . . . . . .And probably haven't for a few months now. In fact none of my friends or family discuss it. That's the mental side of it for me.

I repeat. Confused Dot Com.

It's got to be said though. . . . I absolutely love the differing opinions on this forum. Especially the Politics section. Even though they have ALL FAILED MISERABLY in helping me to 'make up my mind.'

Maggie B
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Post by Dominic »

Operation Yellowhammer was a Worst Case Scenario Analysis.
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Post by Jim B »

Maggie
Our daughter recently started work as a research scientist at Oxford University joining a team looking into cures for Alzheimer's. She was on the phone the other night to her Mum bemoaning the fact that Brexit is affecting their team and they may be shut down.
It's just a little insight into how Brexit is affecting lives.
If the UK leaves on the 31st October that's not the end of it, it's the start of years of austerity. I lived through that in the fifties and sixties and cannot comprehend why people would want to go back to the way many of us had to live then.
Can anyone who supports Brexit, hand on heart tell me how they were personally detrimentally affected by the UK being a member of the EU, there's nothing tangible I can think of. My life at work was improved, the area where I lived received investment that we would never have received if left to the UK government.
The only person who can answer your question is yourself.

Jim
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Post by Lincoln »

Just my view. The EU decided that they would make the laws for the UK to match there way of thinking that the law should be. The UK pays monster amounts of money to the EU and gets a pittance back. The EU members of there so-called Govt pay themselves monster salaries. So let's get out ASAP.
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Post by WHL »

Jim B wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:49 am Maggie
Our daughter recently started work as a research scientist at Oxford University joining a team looking into cures for Alzheimer's. She was on the phone the other night to her Mum bemoaning the fact that Brexit is affecting their team and they may be shut down.
It's just a little insight into how Brexit is affecting lives.
If the UK leaves on the 31st October that's not the end of it, it's the start of years of austerity. I lived through that in the fifties and sixties and cannot comprehend why people would want to go back to the way many of us had to live then.
Can anyone who supports Brexit, hand on heart tell me how they were personally detrimentally affected by the UK being a member of the EU, there's nothing tangible I can think of. My life at work was improved, the area where I lived received investment that we would never have received if left to the UK government.
The only person who can answer your question is yourself.

Jim
Is it possible for you to explain why, they may be shut down.
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Post by Dominic »

Lincoln wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:52 am Just my view. The EU decided that they would make the laws for the UK to match there way of thinking that the law should be. The UK pays monster amounts of money to the EU and gets a pittance back. The EU members of there so-called Govt pay themselves monster salaries. So let's get out ASAP.
What laws have adversely affected you?
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Post by Jim B »

WHL
I understand it's due to equipment and funding, most funding contrary to what Lincoln says comes from the EU. We may send a lot of money to Brussels but we get most of it back through grants and funding for schemes and projects like our daughter is working on. She could move to other projects within the EU but due to losing the automatic right to live and work in other EU countries it will not be as easy as it was to find work. Companies and Universities will take the easy option of employing people who don't require visas and work permits.
To answer Dominics question to Lincoln relating to EU Laws, the only laws from the EU that have affected me personally were beneficial, like improved working conditions and social improvements. I can only think Lincoln is a multi millionaire and has a hedge fund offshore somewhere if the laws are affecting him.
An interesting website to visit is "Scientists for EU", they can give a much better insight of their concerns about leaving the EU.
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Post by Jim B »

WHL
Strangely there was a news article on Sky News just now about the UK becoming a "Scientific Exile" due to a lack of resources and future cooperation because nothing is in place to provide continuity after Brexit.

Jim
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Post by WHL »

Jim B wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:46 am WHL
Strangely there was a news article on Sky News just now about the UK becoming a "Scientific Exile" due to a lack of resources and future cooperation because nothing is in place to provide continuity after Brexit.

Jim
We have a family member currently doing medical research work in a European city, and she is concerned about continuing because the position is for EU members.
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Post by Jimgym »

According to Michael Gove, and reports in the newspapers it is a "worst case scenario".
The leaked information was marked a "base case" scenario, but the information released by the Government, part of which was redacted, was labelled a "worst-case scenario", a point underlined by Michael Gove, who is overseeing no-deal planning.
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Post by Lincoln »

Dominic wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:12 am
Lincoln wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:52 am Just my view. The EU decided that they would make the laws for the UK to match there way of thinking that the law should be. The UK pays monster amounts of money to the EU and gets a pittance back. The EU members of there so-called Govt pay themselves monster salaries. So let's get out ASAP.
What laws have adversely affected you?
As I said, Dom. "Just my view"
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Post by Jim B »

TD
So you're quite happy to take the gamble with the wellbeing of your relation; that's nice but what's the benefits for that risk? There are already comments about drug shortages through people hoarding.
Who was the guy talking on YouTube, yesterday the spokespersons for the Freight Association and the Hauliers Association were on both BBC and Sky and both gave a totally contradictory view.
There were thousands of Leavers commenting on Yellowhammer yesterday, laughing off the concerns of water shortages, of course it wasn't the shortage of water per se but the chemicals to purify it. You couldn't make it up.
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Post by Dominic »

Lincoln wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:40 pm
Dominic wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:12 am
Lincoln wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:52 am Just my view. The EU decided that they would make the laws for the UK to match there way of thinking that the law should be. The UK pays monster amounts of money to the EU and gets a pittance back. The EU members of there so-called Govt pay themselves monster salaries. So let's get out ASAP.
What laws have adversely affected you?
As I said, Dom. "Just my view"
Huh? I understand that it is your view. However, if you don't like the way the EU makes laws, and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion, I would have thought there would be a reason why you didn't like them doing so.
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Post by Dominic »

Lincoln wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:40 pm
Dominic wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:12 am
Lincoln wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:52 am Just my view. The EU decided that they would make the laws for the UK to match there way of thinking that the law should be. The UK pays monster amounts of money to the EU and gets a pittance back. The EU members of there so-called Govt pay themselves monster salaries. So let's get out ASAP.
What laws have adversely affected you?
As I said, Dom. "Just my view"
Huh? I understand that it is your view. However, if you don't like the way the EU makes laws, and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion, I would have thought there would be a reason why you didn't like them doing so.
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Post by Jimgward »

The UK created more laws within the EU, than any other country. They could also choose not to impose some laws. I have yet to hear of a law from the EU that anyone can tell me is bad....

Anyway, another matter. We keep hearing from Gove ( another weedling liar) that we are prepared.... I have a a couple of businesses. One trades in the EU and is about to start trading (importing) with India. It took me hours to find out what tariffs I would pay for medical devices coming in from India as I needed projections to set prices in the UK. I have tried to call HMRC for weeks and cannot get connected, never mind through. I cannot even send them an enquiry by email (although I used to be able to) and their chat is overwhelmed. They cannot handle the present cases. I finally found a web chat I could ask about tariffs pre and post Brexit. I needed to know that they are today, what they would be under no-deal and what they could be in between. The answer is 0% today on these goods and no idea under no deal. I am therefore none the wiser. I have been told all advice is on the EU - yes, the EU websites and HMRC have NO information on likely tariffs under WTO and no help at all.

They have also issued a special code thatโ€™s needed post 31/10 to Import and Export and that an Agent needs to be appointed. No agents can handle this as they are overwhelmed.

I only got the letter this week - like I presume all other SMEs.... so the UK is likely to lose loads of business both exporting and importing.
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Post by Jim B »

Termites Dream wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:46 pm
Jim B wrote: โ†‘Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:43 pm TD
So you're quite happy to take the gamble with the wellbeing of your relation; that's nice but what's the benefits for that risk? There are already comments about drug shortages through people hoarding.
Who was the guy talking on YouTube, yesterday the spokespersons for the Freight Association and the Hauliers Association were on both BBC and Sky and both gave a totally contradictory view.
There were thousands of Leavers commenting on Yellowhammer yesterday, laughing off the concerns of water shortages, of course it wasn't the shortage of water per se but the chemicals to purify it. You couldn't make it up.
Jim
Jim

I cannot gamble or pass because we have a Parliamentary system and it is out of our hands.
I do not know who was on the Youtube video and that is why I pass no comment. I suspect it is genuine but it could be a fake, but somebody may know him, if as he claims, he was on Sky News. I would be interested if the measures he claims have been taken appears elsewhere. Your other remarks I have already addressed in my opener.
TD
Those who voted Brexit gambled that they would at least maintain the status quo or eventually better their position; those who voted to remain were satisfied with the way things were; that's where the gambling comes into it.
All you have really done is suggest that everything in Yellowhammer is Project Fear and like Lincoln have not provided any positives or benefits that Brexit will provide. Are you another multi millionaire with an offshore hedge fund because they're the only people who are going to gain from Brexit as far as I can see?

Jim
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Post by Jim B »

TD
I don't assume anything, I can read clearly what is written. Try re-reading your posts.

It's a pity you don't suffer my fears, there's every possibility the country wouldn't be in the mess it's in if you did.

Jim
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Post by Maggie B »

I have so so tried to absorb all of the above comments with an open mind.. . . . . .as that is where my mind has been for several months.

However, I still see benefits for both sides' opinions!

I have to say though. . . . . . .it looks to me like 'a deal' would be better than NO deal for us (the UK) and the whole of Europe.

Your discussions have actually helped 'slightly' in my quandary but, I can't help thinking the Boris Boy may have improved our negotiation power in a small way. . . . . Compared to the former Prime Minister's? ๐Ÿค” In my opinion, she did not push enough.

Maggie B.
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