Whatever your political persuasion, defend your corner here. All we ask is that you voice YOUR opinion, rather than just post a link to a half-hour youtube video. Politics can get a bit lively, and if you prefer a less combative debate, please post in the Politics for Moderates section instead.
Speaking of cowboys, I've been treating myself to Clint Eastwood's Western Collection over the last few days. Last night's was "For a few dollars more", and it doesn't get much better than that.
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Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
The annual figures obviously don't take into account seasonal spikes- 9/11 springs to mind of course
The US indeed currently have very little Islamic extremism incidents- I'm sure Trump wants to keep it that way.
The ban is of course as much symbolic as practical.
You have to contrast Trump's stance with that of say of Merkel, who has made a complete pigs ear of EU immigration policies . I suspect Trumps latest decision is more about telling Europe if you want to allow unlimited numbers of unvetted people into your countries then on you go, the US isn't going to help you out by taking any of them off your hands
Conoflex wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:57 am
The annual figures obviously don't take into account seasonal spikes- 9/11 springs to mind of course
The US indeed currently have very little Islamic extremism incidents- I'm sure Trump wants to keep it that way.
The ban is of course as much symbolic as practical.
You have to contrast Trump's stance with that of say of Merkel, who has made a complete pigs ear of EU immigration policies . I suspect Trumps latest decision is more about telling Europe if you want to allow unlimited numbers of unvetted people into your countries then on you go, the US isn't going to help you out by taking any of them off your hands
So why is he blocking vetted ones too?
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
I believe the ban does not cover those with dual citizenship- ie those who have presumably been thoroughly vetted by another "approved" country. Mo Farrah springs to mind. I'm sure it will all come out in the wash. He hasn't banned "Muslims", he has banned people from certain countries with high terrorist risks tha do not have sufficient documentation to prove who or what they actually are
Those who only carry a passport issued by the countries on that list (or no passport at all) are indeed to be banned. Presumably because there is insufficient trust in those governments to issue passports thoroughly themselves and those who arrive from those countries with no ID at all could indeed be anyone or anything. It may be that the US will in future arrange a more thorough vetting system for everyone, because the previous system under Obama was not implementing anything like thorough background checks
Merkel knows she has made a huge mistake in letting so many in, and about 1 in 10 are now to be deported (if they can still find them) - so there are obviously issues with a lot of people arriving claiming to be asylum seekers who clearly are nothing of the sort. At best they might be economic migrants, at worse they drive lorries through markets
Trump thinks European open door policy is nonsense and is effectively stating so with this ban
It's more a case of once too often surely That 10 year average says "since 9/11"- which has obviously been omitted because it changes the stats totally
The terror threat has been ramped up hugely since 9/11 as well (or do you think the world is currently a safer place ?) Maybe the Americans and their waterboading has contributed to keeping the US relatively incident free?
Dominic wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:21 pm
Even if you took everything from, say 2000, then death by American will still win by a country mile.
That's their choice. You won't get Americans to give up their guns, you will get Americans to rally round a perceived threat to their country. Right or wrong that is the way they see it.
There is no doubt in most people's minds the refugee crisis has exacerbated the European terrorist crisis - how Europe deals with that may determine whether the EU survives or not
If France elects Le Pen the European project is a dead duck, and the one man standing between Le Pen and the Presidency is now up to his eyeballs in a corruption scandal
Line 3 on Americans killed by Islamist Jihadists is 9. On 9/11 by that quantity they did 313 years worth, so evidently they are having a well earned rest.
Conoflex wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:34 pm
but surely if it hadn't been for 9/11 Bush and Blair would never have embarked on the disastrous war in Iraq in the first place ?
It's all about the oil. It's always been about the oil.
Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
Conoflex wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:34 pm
but surely if it hadn't been for 9/11 Bush and Blair would never have embarked on the disastrous war in Iraq in the first place ?
It's all about the oil. It's always been about the oil.
Totally agree, otherwise the US/UK, would have invaded Uganda, which has no oil eons ago.
No doubt about that, but you play the hand you've got.
No one can honestly say that the current European migration crisis doesn't have anything to do with the current European terrorist crisis
If Merkel could have it all over again and have a European Union that could actually protect it's borders (rather than leaving it to bankrupt states in the front line that can't even look after their own destitute) she would have been looking to implement proper vetting too.
As it was she took a bad situation, opened her gob and made it 10 times worse. I'll bet Trump emerges from his decision to keep unvetted people out a lot better than the EU will from Merkel's decision to let everyone in
Conoflex wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:51 pm
No doubt about that, but you play the hand you've got.
No one can honestly say that the current European migration crisis doesn't have anything to do with the current European terrorist crisis
If Merkel could have it all over again and have a European Union that could actually protect it's borders (rather than leaving it to bankrupt states in the front line that can't even look after their own destitute) she would have been looking to implement proper vetting too.
As it was she took a bad situation, opened her gob and made it 10 times worse. I'll bet Trump emerges from his decision to keep unvetted people out a lot better than the EU will from Merkel's decision to let everyone in
Agreed, trouble is the silent majority need to come together to support Trump in his sensible, if poorly executed decisions.
Conoflex wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:51 pm
No doubt about that, but you play the hand you've got.
No one can honestly say that the current European migration crisis doesn't have anything to do with the current European terrorist crisis
If Merkel could have it all over again and have a European Union that could actually protect it's borders (rather than leaving it to bankrupt states in the front line that can't even look after their own destitute) she would have been looking to implement proper vetting too.
As it was she took a bad situation, opened her gob and made it 10 times worse. I'll bet Trump emerges from his decision to keep unvetted people out a lot better than the EU will from Merkel's decision to let everyone in
Agreed, trouble is the silent majority need to come together to support Trump in his sensible, if poorly executed decisions.
Wallace, you've lost me. Who is this "silent majority" that you refer to?
Or maybe you meant "silent minority"Because of course you know that Trump only garnered 48% of all votes cast?
Conoflex wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:34 pm
but surely if it hadn't been for 9/11 Bush and Blair would never have embarked on the disastrous war in Iraq in the first place ?
If they had been honest, they'd have embarked on a war with Saudi. Most of the bombers/pilots were from there. Most suPport for Daesch is from Saudi. The largest rouge state of all.
