CMail: a hybrid future

Discuss environmental matters here, and compare notes on what renewable energy systems might be best for you.
Post Reply
User avatar
cyprusmax47
Chief Cat Spotter
Posts: 4968
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:10 am
Location: Paphos area since 1982

CMail: a hybrid future

Post by cyprusmax47 »

What is your opinion about photo voltaic energy in Cyprus and electric cars?
I think our Gov (EAC) tries always to avoid that private people producing electricity from the sun we have so much here...

Article CM:
http://cyprus-mail.com/2017/02/07/a-hybrid-future/
trevnhil
Posts: 7093
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:12 pm
Location: Polemi

Re: CMail: a hybrid future

Post by trevnhil »

I think photo voltaic panels are a good idea. We have some on our bungalow and since installing them we have not had to pay for any electricity.. We just have to pay the standing charge every 2 months.

Trev..
Trev..
User avatar
Devil
Forum Curmudgeon
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:34 am
Location: Mosfiloti

Re: CMail: a hybrid future

Post by Devil »

trevnhil wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:06 am I think photo voltaic panels are a good idea. We have some on our bungalow and since installing them we have not had to pay for any electricity.. We just have to pay the standing charge every 2 months.

Trev..
The high cost of the electricity from your roof is paid for, through the nose, by all the consumers who are taxed for it (RES charges). The real cost, without subsidies and pay-backs etc., amounts to about €0.45-0.55/kWh. This is why, in many parts of the USA, home-owners no longer get state subsidies, either on the installation or the kWh produced, (but they still profit from Chinese subsidies). Did you know that 50-80% of the electricity you think you are putting into the grid (and paid for) is lost in waveform and phase angle losses?
User avatar
Devil
Forum Curmudgeon
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:34 am
Location: Mosfiloti

Re: CMail: a hybrid future

Post by Devil »

cyprusmax47 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:46 am What is your opinion about photo voltaic energy in Cyprus and electric cars?
I think our Gov (EAC) tries always to avoid that private people producing electricity from the sun we have so much here...

Article CM:
http://cyprus-mail.com/2017/02/07/a-hybrid-future/
We are decades from a rational energy policy in this country. All electric cars do is transfer the exhaust pipe to the power station stack, in trumps.
User avatar
cyprusmax47
Chief Cat Spotter
Posts: 4968
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:10 am
Location: Paphos area since 1982

Re: CMail: a hybrid future

Post by cyprusmax47 »

Devil
At least you get in CY your investment in PV very quick back (4-5 years) as there is so much sunshine
unlike other Middle European countries. With the pressure of the EU Cyprus had to come forward with
something at least (net-metering) as their show off projects with wind power did not impress EU (we have no
wind here to produce profitable) even when their wind farms are near the airports that passenger can see it
when landing.
Electricity for electric cars should be produced from large PV installations but EAC has no interest and private
competition needs more time to come..
User avatar
Devil
Forum Curmudgeon
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:34 am
Location: Mosfiloti

Re: CMail: a hybrid future

Post by Devil »

cyprusmax47 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:19 pm Devil
At least you get in CY your investment in PV very quick back (4-5 years) as there is so much sunshine
Only because other people are paying for it through RES supplements on their electricity bills, and taxpayers pay for the subsidies you profit from.
User avatar
cyprusmax47
Chief Cat Spotter
Posts: 4968
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:10 am
Location: Paphos area since 1982

Re: CMail: a hybrid future

Post by cyprusmax47 »

Devil
Sorry but you are wrong.
1.)Responsible for the good return on your investment in PV is the fact that from p.e. 3kWp installed (10-12)
panels in Cyprus you gain app. 5000 kWh/y, If you use normally this amount per year you save 5000x price for 1 unit.
If EAC price is rising you gain more (and this will happen soon).

2.) Which amount you are talking with the CY RES? We pay 0.005 euro per unit. With this little fee one come not far.
In Germany taxpayer pay 2017 as much as 6.88 euros !!! per unit, which aggregates to a proper subsidy....!! We are very
lucky here...
User avatar
Devil
Forum Curmudgeon
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:34 am
Location: Mosfiloti

Re: CMail: a hybrid future

Post by Devil »

cyprusmax47 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:25 pm 2.) Which amount you are talking with the CY RES? We pay 0.005 euro per unit. With this little fee one come not far.
In Germany taxpayer pay 2017 as much as 6.88 euros !!! per unit, which aggregates to a proper subsidy....!! We are very
lucky here...
Like hell are we lucky here! We would be lucky if we had a RES system that worked. The reason you pay that in Germany is because much of your electricity actually comes from waste-to-energy, hydro, pumped hydro, wind and solar, although the latter is not viable. This is the whole point RES, including solar, is expensive. Just look at the solar farm in Bavaria, if you want to know why you pay €6.99/kWh: that reflects the real cost. Here we pay for wind systems that are not viable, a few roof-top systems that are unsuitable for our ancient distribution network and a few other minor sources. No waste-to-energy, no nothing really and certainly no co-ordinated RES policy. Furthermore, the nouveau-riche here make things worse by burning fuel like there was no tomorrow, as there may not be.
User avatar
cyprusmax47
Chief Cat Spotter
Posts: 4968
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:10 am
Location: Paphos area since 1982

Re: CMail: a hybrid future

Post by cyprusmax47 »

Devil
As you are so negative concerning RES in Cyprus I will not continue answering your opinion as it is hopeless.
Facts are that in the whole of Germany photo voltaic systems installed are 39000! MWp. Cyprus <50MW
In Bavaria alone are >500.000 installations, 7500 with more than 1MWp. Altogether 11.000 MWp.
32% of RES electricity is produced from PV, 32% from hdro, 25% from biomass, 8% wind.
Photo voltaic systems take off the pressure in peak demand. So I cannot see the disadvantage on our
distribution network if for example in high summer people run their air cons with their own electricity
they produce with net-metering systems when the sun shines the most.
In Germany people get app. 10 cent subsidy for their PV electricity and they can produce only 800-900 KWh
from 1 KWp installed while in Cyprus one gets app 1800 KWp with the same equipment per 1 KWp.

So the profit here is more than double which I think is lucky....

Another fact is that we have not much biomass in little CY, population less than 1 mio and no rain to grow things big scale...
Things changed a lot in Germany in the last 15 years concerning photo voltaic, maybe people wake up here as well!!
Max
User avatar
Devil
Forum Curmudgeon
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:34 am
Location: Mosfiloti

Re: CMail: a hybrid future

Post by Devil »

Sorry, but wrong again. Proportionally, Cyprus is one of the greatest producers, per capita, of biomass in Europe, in the form of household and other garbage. Figures vary but are generally from 800 kg upwards annually, just for household rubbish. If this were incinerated in a WtE plant, it could produce 9% of our energy needs. A 10 kg garbage bag could produce 3 kWh of energy. However, unlike Germany, which I think has almost 20 such plants, Cyprus has none (it could support 2). Even little Switzerland has 15 ( http://bnellis.eu/waste/wwtridel.html ).

I'm all for solar thermal plants, but not photovoltaic. There have been proposals for some here. They have the advantages of 24/7 production, are cheaper, use less land area/MW but, like everything here, all talk and no action.

Before we can really profit from any form of RES, we need a smart grid that can handle inputs from small and large producers. Until then, we are tying to cut water with a sword, as our failures in all forms of RES demonstrate. Above all, we need to know the true costs of all forms of RES, without subsidies, paybacks etc.
Post Reply