solar panels

Discuss environmental matters here, and compare notes on what renewable energy systems might be best for you.
Termites Dream
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Re: solar panels

Post by Termites Dream » Fri May 05, 2017 8:50 am

Just out of interest. Solar panels have just under one oz of silver in each roof panel, (unless Devil says otherwise). Following the Forex and Liebor banking Frauds the EU took a look at the way goods and services are priced, The result is that as of Jan 2018 the price of Silver will be arrived at in a different fashion. The idea is that the price will reflect its true value based on supply and demand.

This may seem obvious but the price is created by about 6 banks who create futures contracts which they sell en mass to each other to keep the price low and control the market. The contracts are counted as if real silver. These contracts are known as "Paper Silver" and globally have a ratio of about 3000 to 3500 to 1 of real Silver. On the Comex in the US they trade the world production of Silver each day as an average and cannot possibly settle 95% of contracts with physical supply. The announcement to change came about 6 weeks ago and within days the UK price setters resigned their contracts to avoid probable prosecution under the new system.

The manipulation of Silver is still in full flow in the USA even though all the banks involved are under investigation. JP Morgan are said to have only had 2 days where their Silver desk did not make a profit in the last five years. The regulators who are normally ex bankers have no history of stopping this business.

The change in the EU could therefore push up prices, but to what?. In past years inflation adjusted highs could make Silver $160 to $200/oz but many in the Silver industry say about $100 oz 5 or 6 times current price. The dominance of the US market may also mean no change at all, even though it is not the largest trader. So will panels go up in price....well we will see.

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cyprusmax47
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Re: solar panels

Post by cyprusmax47 » Fri May 05, 2017 9:25 am

Termites Dream wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 8:50 am
Just out of interest. Solar panels have just under one oz of silver in each roof panel, (unless Devil says otherwise). Following the Forex and Liebor banking Frauds the EU took a look at the way goods and services are priced, The result is that as of Jan 2018 the price of Silver will be arrived at in a different fashion. The idea is that the price will reflect its true value based on supply and demand.

This may seem obvious but the price is created by about 6 banks who create futures contracts which they sell en mass to each other to keep the price low and control the market. The contracts are counted as if real silver. These contracts are known as "Paper Silver" and globally have a ratio of about 3000 to 3500 to 1 of real Silver. On the Comex in the US they trade the world production of Silver each day as an average and cannot possibly settle 95% of contracts with physical supply. The announcement to change came about 6 weeks ago and within days the UK price setters resigned their contracts to avoid probable prosecution under the new system.

The manipulation of Silver is still in full flow in the USA even though all the banks involved are under investigation. JP Morgan are said to have only had 2 days where their Silver desk did not make a profit in the last five years. The regulators who are normally ex bankers have no history of stopping this business.

The change in the EU could therefore push up prices, but to what?. In past years inflation adjusted highs could make Silver $160 to $200/oz but many in the Silver industry say about $100 oz 5 or 6 times current price. The dominance of the US market may also mean no change at all, even though it is not the largest trader. So will panels go up in price....well we will see.
PV panels will become cheaper not more expensive in future. The main components are silicon, aluminium frame, glass, plastics. There are also panels that contain no silicon but no silver either. https://www.nrel.gov/workingwithus/re-p ... taics.html

Max

Termites Dream
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Re: solar panels

Post by Termites Dream » Fri May 05, 2017 9:51 am

Max, my understanding is that there is about an oz in most panels. Across a large panel that is about a 10p piece only. A tiny amount.
http://www.learcapital.com/news-blog/4- ... for-silver

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cyprusmax47
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Re: solar panels

Post by cyprusmax47 » Fri May 05, 2017 10:33 am

Termites Dream wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 9:51 am
Max, my understanding is that there is about an oz in most panels. Across a large panel that is about a 10p piece only. A tiny amount.
http://www.learcapital.com/news-blog/4- ... for-silver
Most PV cells contain far less than 50 mg of silver which counts to less than 1 cent per Wp. If a PV panels has 250Wp it is <2.50 Euro. If this price is too high for production there are also methods now to use copper instead of silver paste. Maybe the copper price goes up than...

Termites Dream
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Re: solar panels

Post by Termites Dream » Fri May 05, 2017 10:47 am

Max....Do you have a link to support that and the size of panel. I am genuinely interested for my own ends.

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cyprusmax47
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Re: solar panels

Post by cyprusmax47 » Fri May 05, 2017 11:49 am

Termites Dream wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 10:47 am
Max....Do you have a link to support that and the size of panel. I am genuinely interested for my own ends.
PV panels used at the moment for net-metering are 250 Wp and have a size of 1.66 x 0.99 m. 300 Wp are more expensive and as there is a price war at the moment they come not in use even if you save a lot of space and some mounting materials. I was reading the information about copper paste in a PV magazine but cannot remember which one it was at this moment.

Jim B
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Re: solar panels

Post by Jim B » Fri May 05, 2017 3:31 pm

We had a good day yesterday producing 28,774 kWh; the system has really helped cutting the bills and with the 40% price rise should save even more.

Jim

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cyprusmax47
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Re: solar panels

Post by cyprusmax47 » Fri May 05, 2017 4:08 pm

Jim B wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 3:31 pm
We had a good day yesterday producing 28,774 kWh; the system has really helped cutting the bills and with the 40% price rise should save even more.

Jim
And if there was not so much dust in the air you would have produced even more...

Max

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Dominic
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Re: solar panels

Post by Dominic » Fri May 05, 2017 7:46 pm

Jim B wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 3:31 pm
We had a good day yesterday producing 28,774 kWh; the system has really helped cutting the bills and with the 40% price rise should save even more.

Jim
How many kw is your system, if you don't mind me asking?
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Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.

Jim B
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Re: solar panels

Post by Jim B » Fri May 05, 2017 8:12 pm

Five I think,

Jim

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Dominic
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Re: solar panels

Post by Dominic » Fri May 05, 2017 8:16 pm

Ta
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Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.

Jim B
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Re: solar panels

Post by Jim B » Sat May 06, 2017 5:05 pm

It appears the best innovation I've done was to use two of the high output hot water solar panels to heat the pool. Usually it's getting towards the end of June before we can manage a swim but yesterday the pool was 26C and the wife was in swimming. We did have a Heat Exchanger already so it was just a case of adding a solar pump, an electric pump with a thermostat and modifying the pipe work.

Jim

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Dominic
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Re: solar panels

Post by Dominic » Sat May 06, 2017 9:00 pm

We've been swimming in our pool for a few weeks now, without heating. Mind you I was swimming in the sea in December, so I guess I just like cold water, as Polemi isn't known as a hotspot.
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Jim B
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Re: solar panels

Post by Jim B » Sat May 06, 2017 9:25 pm

We are not as high as Polemi but we are always a couple of degrees cooler than Paphos plus there is always a breeze as we live at the head of a valley and that appears to lower the pool temperature as well. If we get six months usage out of the pool this year I'll be very pleased as usually we only manage about three.

Jim

priyateke
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Re: solar panels

Post by priyateke » Fri May 03, 2019 12:27 pm

Great post.thanks for sharing :)

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Jimgward
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Re: solar panels

Post by Jimgward » Fri May 03, 2019 1:24 pm

I produced 617kWh in March, 370kWh in 3 weeks in February and 532kWh in 3 weeks in April (I changed my Broadband provider and forgot to get the unit reconfigured to the new Wireless) About 35kWh in a day is the best I've had, so far, per day on a 5kW system.

If the weather hadn't been as poor this year, I would have been producing about 900kWh in April as I should in May onwards.

I am getting the performance I expected, from a GreenAir install. Should pay for itself, with price rises for electricity, in about 5 - 6 years.
\UPDATE:

Nearly 700kWh in April, now I’m back online....
Last edited by Jimgward on Fri May 03, 2019 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cyprusmax47
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Re: solar panels

Post by cyprusmax47 » Fri May 03, 2019 2:30 pm

Jimgward wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 1:24 pm
I produced 617kWh in March, 370kWh in 3 weeks in February and 532kWh in 3 weeks in April (I changed my Broadband provider and forgot to get the unit reconfigured to the new Wireless) About 35kWh in a day is the best I've had, so far, per day on a 5kW system.

If the weather hadn't been as poor this year, I would have been producing about 900kWh in April as I should in May onwards.

I am getting the performance I expected, from a GreenAir install. Should pay for itself, with price rises for electricity, in about 5 - 6 years.

Good to hear that your system is producing what GreenAir was promising, with obviously optimizers installed. My own reference installation's reading is ca 22% less then yours hence it is without optimizers, but I have the same panels (modules), roof slope ca 18%, SSE.
Without the dust layer from the last days on the modules, I am sure to produce more after a hard rain. (which just started now) Otherwise I will use my garden hose and clean them a bit...

Max

trevnhil
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Re: solar panels

Post by trevnhil » Fri May 03, 2019 5:54 pm

Ha ha, I too use the garden hose on the panels if they look very dusty..
Trev..

J B
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Re: solar panels

Post by J B » Fri May 03, 2019 6:15 pm

trevnhil wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:31 pm
Nothing at all... It works on the basis of you getting credited with the units you produce. These are then taken into consideration when the Electric board read the meter.
If in the two month billing period you make 900 units, but consume 600, then a credit of 300 units is carried forward to the next bill and so on.
Hopefully you make enough credit unit in the Sunny months to use against the larger consumption of units in the Winter months..
The 'clock' is set to Zero after (in our case) the February reading...
Someone on our complex is investigating the installation of solar panels for the communal supply (pool and lighting)

Our bills are rarely over €100 per two months

Any opinions?
J B

trevnhil
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Re: solar panels

Post by trevnhil » Fri May 03, 2019 6:57 pm

It is going to take a long while to recoup €100 every two months.. I personally doubt that it is worth it. But you have not mentioned the cost of the installation.
Trev..

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