Cyprus way ahead of UK---this time!

[angieb]

Having a friend who sadly passed away because her tumour wasn't spotted in time, this is really useful information - thank you.

[cyprusgrump]

My wife was overdue a mammogram in the UK and the doctors could not offer another for 9 months, making it nearly four years. Some friends suggested we go to E...... Hospital and get it checked. It was to cost 70 euro. Not only did we get the mammogram for that, but Ultra-sound. All the pictures, X-rays and report were done in an hour and copies supplied. We were very impressed. When we talked to them, they were horrified that in the UK they only check every 3 years, as they recommend every year.

We had a friend join us for a weeks holiday. She told us that she was overdue her check, which in her case was annual as she had previous history of breast cancer in her late teens. She is considered high risk.

She too went to the hospital but had a new check, a three D mammogram in addition to ultra sound. The result was a recommendation for a biopsy.

She returned to the UK armed with all the documents and went to her local lady GP. The Doctor rubbished her concerns that her mamogram in the UK was late. She rubbished the report, the qualifications of the doctor making the report, his ability and the quality of the medicine available in Cyprus. Please bare in mind she has all the pictures and documents in her hand. The GP stated she had never heard of such an examination technique and said " If She had never had it, she would not have known, and would have no need to worry".

Our friend pressed on, and the GP said she would authorise the biopsy as it worried her so much-----no other reason!!

The biopsy was positive and treatment is in hand. The hospital stated however that they had no such 3-D sytem and they would not have found this for a further year or more as it was so small and deep.

One up to Cyprus and a much better chance for our friend to receive treatment early.

I did not post this for a political debate on funding of the NHS, but just to say you have the means to get checked for the cost of a few meals at a Taverna and it has to be worth it.
I have not posted the full name of the hospital for fear of being told I am advertising---so PM's welcome.
TD

Excellent!

Although we've heard from some with bad experiences here (mostly attempting to perform unnecessary operations), our experience with the private health care system has been one of total excellence...

See also: Dentistry.

By the way, I hope this site will not be as anal about 'advertising' as others... i see no reason why you shouldn't be able to name the hospital.

[Devil]

The difference being I am equally impressed with the vast majority of the work the NHS carries out....unlike the Cypriot Public sector health service.

That is a tad unfair. The Bank of Cyprus Oncology Centre in Strovolos is THE leading cancer and research hospital in Cyprus. The infrastructure is provided by the bank but the rest is in the Public Sector in the same way as the General Hospitals and at the same costs (€0.50/prescription line, €6.00/consultation). I can assure you that it works efficiently, unlike the General Hospitals: appointment times are respected, no queues more than a couple of persons etc. I was treated for a 21-year old cancer initially at Nicosia General (sheer hell) but then my urologist referred me to BOCOC (sheer delight, except for the parking!).

[Dominic]

My wife was overdue a mammogram in the UK and the doctors could not offer another for 9 months, making it nearly four years. Some friends suggested we go to E...... Hospital and get it checked. It was to cost 70 euro. Not only did we get the mammogram for that, but Ultra-sound. All the pictures, X-rays and report were done in an hour and copies supplied. We were very impressed. When we talked to them, they were horrified that in the UK they only check every 3 years, as they recommend every year.

We had a friend join us for a weeks holiday. She told us that she was overdue her check, which in her case was annual as she had previous history of breast cancer in her late teens. She is considered high risk.

She too went to the hospital but had a new check, a three D mammogram in addition to ultra sound. The result was a recommendation for a biopsy.

She returned to the UK armed with all the documents and went to her local lady GP. The Doctor rubbished her concerns that her mamogram in the UK was late. She rubbished the report, the qualifications of the doctor making the report, his ability and the quality of the medicine available in Cyprus. Please bare in mind she has all the pictures and documents in her hand. The GP stated she had never heard of such an examination technique and said " If She had never had it, she would not have known, and would have no need to worry".

Our friend pressed on, and the GP said she would authorise the biopsy as it worried her so much-----no other reason!!

The biopsy was positive and treatment is in hand. The hospital stated however that they had no such 3-D sytem and they would not have found this for a further year or more as it was so small and deep.

One up to Cyprus and a much better chance for our friend to receive treatment early.

I did not post this for a political debate on funding of the NHS, but just to say you have the means to get checked for the cost of a few meals at a Taverna and it has to be worth it.
I have not posted the full name of the hospital for fear of being told I am advertising---so PM's welcome.
TD

By all means post the full name of the hospital. However if you don't mind I will move this to the medical section, as that is what it is there for, and it is looking a bit empty at the moment.

[Lynsab]

Besides breast cancer screening in Cyprus what other cancer screenings are available?

Is their in addition aortic aneurysm screening for men over the age of 65? Or will that be reliant on expats needing to use the uk NHS again?

Do 'private clinics' in Cyprus release data on cancer screenings?

Is the breast cancer mortality rate any better since the introduction of breast cancer screening in Cyprus in 2004?

Significantly does Cyprus perform colecteral cancer screening? Is there data for how many colonoscopies are carried out? Do you know what the data is for bowel cancer? Is there more formal screening for prostate cancer besides the PSA testing?

Cyprus males rank high in the prevalence of smoking within the eu, women are far lower but increasing, the biggest cancer killer in Europe is lung cancer of both men and women...is enough being done to prevent that? Two people in my Cyprus village died of lung cancer in a year, both expats, I questioned it as neither smoked....cancer in Cyprus is the second biggest killer...instead of trying to score points between countries, its far better like I do to investigate what is being done in your name...get the correct data on prevention, demand more screening ask for official figures on cancers deaths across the board...

if you return to the uk you will be bombarded with cancer screening....it should be exactly the same in Cyprus...the fact that people are living far longer, the state pension needing age extension etc is the huge change in the medical profession in keeping us alive...even in the early 70's we were expected to live ten years LESS than we are....in Victorian times our average age was 29! We now have more octogenarians than ever before....this is BECAUSE of the medical profession not in spite of it...as well as the constant flow of information teaching us NOT to smoke, to drink less alcohol and to eat healthily and exercise more...I'm glad that in the UK we abhore the rise of the takeaway...and promote preparing and eating healthier food yourself...

It's easy from afar to knock the uk NHS because of one incident without taking into consideration that it treats ( mostly successfully ) one million people every single day....it seriously lacks funding, it has some bad apples, it has dubious management....but without doubt it's the best free at source health service of its kind in the world and serves anyone who lives permanently no matter if they've never contributed anything all their lives...no uk doctor would refuse a patient who needs help or ask if they have the money....

I have tales of bad treatment happening in Cyprus too, but IF you write of them you're suddenly Satan....what we need to realise is both countries are NOT perfect in their approach to health, but they do what they can under the circumstances...I see Cyprus is evolving into an NHS system this year too? Let's hope it works as the private system only works for those who can pay...

But at risk of arguing with those I've no wish too....when you need the UK NHS ( my nieghbour in Cyprus is doing so as we speak, and I hope it's saving her life ) whilst an expat then it's available to state pensioners to do so....I needed it when I returned to the uk just over four years ago...i need it still today...my OH needed it this year...I've NEVER waited two weeks or even one week to see a GP...since I've returned to live in the uk...in fact I've this week done an ' online' consultation with my GP surgery given my condition the doctors surgery phoned me an hour later...I was in an hour after that...if you're ill there's no wait..

I remember sitting for five hours once waiting to see a doctor in Cyprus and fighting to keep my place in the queue by his door it was awful....it depends what you're prepared to put up with..

But IMO both health services have failings....and always will have...it's just the UKs get reported more as they should....I'm sure once the Cyprus NHS gets going you will see similar...

[Maggie B]

I would expect no less from Lynsab.

A VERY BALANCED VIEW.

Maggie B

[Lynsab]

Hey chucks! How are you?

Lovely to speak to you...miss your brilliant wit...how's beautiful Scotland...you know we're in Wales now?

[Maggie B]

Hey chucks! How are you?

Lovely to speak to you...miss your brilliant wit...how's beautiful Scotland...you know we're in Wales now?

Doing ticketyboo Lyn thank you. I don't post much at all now but always like to keep up with the current 'gossip!'

It's lovely to see Dominic 'pulling out all the stops' for us mottley crew to continue our interesting debates.

MB

[Dominic]

Besides breast cancer screening in Cyprus what other cancer screenings are available?

Is their in addition aortic aneurysm screening for men over the age of 65? Or will that be reliant on expats needing to use the uk NHS again?

Do 'private clinics' in Cyprus release data on cancer screenings?

Is the breast cancer mortality rate any better since the introduction of breast cancer screening in Cyprus in 2004?

Significantly does Cyprus perform colecteral cancer screening? Is there data for how many colonoscopies are carried out? Do you know what the data is for bowel cancer? Is there more formal screening for prostate cancer besides the PSA testing?

Cyprus males rank high in the prevalence of smoking within the eu, women are far lower but increasing, the biggest cancer killer in Europe is lung cancer of both men and women...is enough being done to prevent that? Two people in my Cyprus village died of lung cancer in a year, both expats, I questioned it as neither smoked....cancer in Cyprus is the second biggest killer...instead of trying to score points between countries, its far better like I do to investigate what is being done in your name...get the correct data on prevention, demand more screening ask for official figures on cancers deaths across the board...

if you return to the uk you will be bombarded with cancer screening....it should be exactly the same in Cyprus...the fact that people are living far longer, the state pension needing age extension etc is the huge change in the medical profession in keeping us alive...even in the early 70's we were expected to live ten years LESS than we are....in Victorian times our average age was 29! We now have more octogenarians than ever before....this is BECAUSE of the medical profession not in spite of it...as well as the constant flow of information teaching us NOT to smoke, to drink less alcohol and to eat healthily and exercise more...I'm glad that in the UK we abhore the rise of the takeaway...and promote preparing and eating healthier food yourself...

It's easy from afar to knock the uk NHS because of one incident without taking into consideration that it treats ( mostly successfully ) one million people every single day....it seriously lacks funding, it has some bad apples, it has dubious management....but without doubt it's the best free at source health service of its kind in the world and serves anyone who lives permanently no matter if they've never contributed anything all their lives...no uk doctor would refuse a patient who needs help or ask if they have the money....

I have tales of bad treatment happening in Cyprus too, but IF you write of them you're suddenly Satan....what we need to realise is both countries are NOT perfect in their approach to health, but they do what they can under the circumstances...I see Cyprus is evolving into an NHS system this year too? Let's hope it works as the private system only works for those who can pay...

But at risk of arguing with those I've no wish too....when you need the UK NHS ( my nieghbour in Cyprus is doing so as we speak, and I hope it's saving her life ) whilst an expat then it's available to state pensioners to do so....I needed it when I returned to the uk just over four years ago...i need it still today...my OH needed it this year...I've NEVER waited two weeks or even one week to see a GP...since I've returned to live in the uk...in fact I've this week done an ' online' consultation with my GP surgery given my condition the doctors surgery phoned me an hour later...I was in an hour after that...if you're ill there's no wait..

I remember sitting for five hours once waiting to see a doctor in Cyprus and fighting to keep my place in the queue by his door it was awful....it depends what you're prepared to put up with..

But IMO both health services have failings....and always will have...it's just the UKs get reported more as they should....I'm sure once the Cyprus NHS gets going you will see similar...

Personally I think the reason people are living longer in the UK at the moment is because of the rationing during and after WW2 which forced people to eat bland yet healthy diets.

[cyprusgrump]

The problem with the NHS is that it is unsustainable...

Governments on both sides of the political divide have tried to solve its (many) problems by throwing more and more money at it.

But a state-owned monopoly will never be able to provide cost efficient health-care - especially when it has grown to the size of the NHS. Economics 101 tells us that if you make something cheaper there will be greater demand. 'Free' healthcare on the NHS means that demand will always outstrip supply.

That is why you can get an instant Mammogram in Cyprus on the private system for €70 but may have to wait weeks or months in the UK even though you have paid ££££££s in tax towards it. Competition.

Here in Pissouri I have two medical centres competing for my health care. I can walk into either at any time and get a full checkup and prescription if required for just €20.

Like it or loathe it, the NHS will either bankrupt the country or will need to reform. And reform means bringing competition into the system.

[cyprusgrump]

The NHS is reforming....if the unions allow it to..and again you cannot compare private with public services....there are a number of Private Heath schemes available in the UK for those who wish/can afford to use them, whose waiting lists are as equally quick as you would receive in the private sector in Cyprus.

But given the per capita investment in the NHS there shouldn't be any difference between the quality of service of the NHS and that of any private scheme. It isn't cheap by any measure.

That is my point.

[keving]

No doubt the UK coming out of the EU will be the saving of the NHS

[cyprusgrump]

No doubt the UK coming out of the EU will be the saving of the NHS

You think so...?

[Lynsab]

Oh yes of course another 350 million coming the NHS way once we brexit....I forgot the infamous bus logo... oh we're going to be so pimped up now eh

[Royal]

The NHS is a national treasure - of that we all agree.

Funding is not the real issue however, as it will quickly consume all money that is thrown at it and still hold out it's hand for more. Successive governments have done just this - thrown money into the NHS (for purely poloitical reasons) whilst telling us that they have spent more than the previous government and that the NHS is safe in their hands. Like all government funded organisations, however, there is an incredible amount of waste and this desperately needs to be sorted out before more money is allocated. The waste includes excessive management, bureaucracy and administration at all levels, excessive prices paid for medical supplies from beds to bedpans because the suppliers can get away with it and simply exorbitant prices paid to the pharmaceutical companies which simply get away with daylight robbery selling medicines to the NHS for silly money whilst telling us that it is to recoup R&D costs.

In addition, I really fail to see why valuable NHS resources are being used on certain types of treatment including plastic surgery like breast enhancement or breast reduction, IVF treatment and a whole host of 'lifestyle choices' like sex change operations or C sections for women too posh to push.

Unfortunately, the NHS has become a political 'sacred cow' and too many people will protest at the slightest change to make it more efficient. Why, for example, is it so taboo to have a realistic charge for prescriptions? I'm sure that the majority of patients are able (and willing) to pay for their medication. It should also be simple enough to have a system where the elderly (in some cases, but not necessarily all!) the unemployed, those on multiple medications and those on benefits may be either exempt these charges, or charged significantly less. If a small charge were also levied for a GP consultation (with the same safeguards in place for the less well off and the chronically sick) then I'm sure most people would willingly pay whilst those who can, but don't want to, will ensure less waiting time for those who are genuinely ill, less time wasting and better quality consultations.

[Lynsab]

But the Cyprus private health system ( cheaper than the uk or not ) will be decimated by the introduction of a new Cyprus NHS! ...of course there's always room and a need for private health care ( work related etc or individual ) for those who can pay and want to get treated maybe quicker? But it won't be treated any better, possibly referrals from private to NHS will be needed which will then join any possible queue....the NHS in the UK has specialised and expert doctors who work in both...so why would you want to pay? How Cyprus will be implementing their system will be revealed soon enough....but it will seriously affect those who currently use private clinics...if they don't need to pay as the NHS will provide everything for their needs...the private sector will shrink and inevitably need to raise charges...the NHS will have money to buy specialised equipment i.e. PET scanners for example and trained professionals using them...which the private sector just can't justify...again in city areas of the UK which has millions of residents means waiting times aren't as brilliant as others...living in rural Wales as with many other parts of the country, we don't experience problems...in fact we complement the system each and every time we use it...it's part of the very heart of the UK and as I have relatives working within it...I know what constraints are put on them...how difficult it can be and how poor the pay is for looking after seriously ill people...but then Cyprus nurses have been on strike this year too...I know as my cousin a nurse in the NHS sent them support...she knows what it feels like for a govt to ignore the backbone of society..

Here's an extract from an article which I read sometime ago re the Cyprus NHS...it seems it's desperately needed...

The swift implementation of the NHS is imperative and as such the efforts of the government and the ministry of health are currently moving in the right direction. Any opposing views from various organised groups or individuals are of course fully respected, but it is imperative that we place the common good above all else.

A National Health System will yield the following benefits:

It will significantly improve the quality of health services through the modernisation and implementation of innovative processes in healthcare, as well as funding through the exchange of best practices at both an international and European level. The principle of the “family physician” and the subsequent freedom of choice (or not) of the patients, hospitals, specialist physicians and pharmacies will introduce a new competitive model that will be based on the quality of the health services provided and not solely on the price.

It will help strengthen the competitiveness of the economy as a healthier population is able to produce more wealth.

It will stop the inequality between different groups by covering all groups of people, including the unemployed and those on low income, strengthening social cohesion.

The public and private health care sectors will be joined in a better coordinated system thereby putting a stop to the exploitation and abuse of the overall health system. Rational costing and monitoring and control in public hospitals will reduce waste, while patients will be able to opt for the use of secondary or tertiary health care without a referral from a family physician, in exchange for a predetermined fee covering the visit and any other services resulting from that visit unless of course the beneficiary is hospitalised.

According to various financial scenarios, it is expected to save on costs amounting to approximately €300 million for the period of 2016-2025. Moreover, the ensuing competition between hospitals in the public and private sectors will help reduce costs and improve the quality of health services overall.

The implementation of the NHS will mean that the Cypriot citizens entitled to healthcare in other member states of the European Union, in accordance to the provisions of the European regulations and directives, will consist of beneficiaries in accordance with Article 16 of the General Health Law. As such, the implementation scope broadens as the criteria to be met are not limited to those currently dictated by the Medical Institutions and Services (Adjustment and Fees) Act.

It will help with the introduction of a system for detecting and combating counterfeit medicines.

In a more concise and cohesive manner, the NHS meets the four pillars that characterise the universal health systems worldwide, such as: equal access and coordination, high quality and effectiveness, economic viability and effective control.

Equal access and coordination provides full coverage of the population, equal access to both the private and public sectors, free choice of provider by beneficiaries, the creation of conditions for the coordinated development and cooperation between the private and public sector, and the introduction of procedural standards regarding private physicians to facilitate correct “guidance” of the beneficiary through the system.

More here.......http://cyprus-mail.com/2016/07/10/need-nhs-immediately/

[Lynsab]

Why, for example, is it so taboo to have a realistic charge for prescriptions? I'm sure that the majority of patients are able (and willing) to pay for their medication. It should also be simple enough to have a system where the elderly (in some cases, but not necessarily all!) the unemployed, those on multiple medications and those on benefits may be either exempt these charges, or charged significantly less. If a small charge were also levied for a GP consultation (with the same safeguards in place for the less well off and the chronically sick) then I'm sure most people would willingly pay whilst those who can, but don't want to, will ensure less waiting time for those who are genuinely ill, less time wasting and better quality consultations.

In England there is a realistic charge for prescriptions ....at £8.40 per item...but even then at 60 or under 16 you don't pay...as well as if you're on benefits...being pregnant and whilst in hospital...there's a few more exemptions...and you can get reduced costs for repeats I think for three months and a year...I think you're on a hiding to nothing expecting those over 60 to pay anymore, as they, in particular from that age on...need the NHS more than anyone else...

For example your prescriptions are reviewed every year by the GP surgery...if no longer necessary or cheaper alternatives are available, then that should take place...I've seen wastage with medications in both countries...it's a problem.

I'm in agreement re a small charge to see your GP I've signed a few petitions for that, spoken with my own surgery etc and realised that many consultations are completely unnecessary charging would help counteract that...and I'm guessing make a huge difference to some waiting times in some regions.

In many GP surgeries nowadays you can do an online consultation, this I believe is having results...but it's early days...plus many towns over a certain population now have walk in small injury units ( MIU's ) we have one approx 7 miles away...which deals with cuts, sprains small injuries etc and an X-ray unit...and can filter on the more serious conditions injuries to local or even specialist A&Es...... that's the only problem with Wales...it has all you need but it's spread out....but we don't pay for hospital car parks !

[Royal]

...I think you're on a hiding to nothing expecting those over 60 to pay anymore, as they, in particular from that age on...need the NHS more than anyone else...

I have no problem in protecting the vulnerable, the elderly and the poorer sections of our society from expenses which they cannot afford - especially when it comes to their health. However, I am over 60 and am both able and willing to pay for things which I am seemingly entitled to for 'free' (of course it's not really free - just that the taxpayer picks up the tab). All of my friends (as far as I am aware) are in the same boat - able and willing to pay. I am against all universal benefits like child allowance which does not take account of actual need. I know of some mothers who simply put the child benefit into a bank account for the child for when they grow up. This is surely not the purpose of the allowance. Similarly, universal benefits for over 60s regardless of actual need is, in my opinion wasteful of taxpayers money. I include in this list free bus passes, free prescriptions and even free TV licences regardless of income - just reliant on age. It does not take the wisdom of Solomon to implement a system whereby these benefits are given only to those who actually need them - based on income. Isn't this the case with the Community Charge? Reductions for the elderly are not based on their age alone, but their income.

[Firefly]

Royal

There are people who, if they know that they 'need' benefits based on income, and I use the term loosely, would not even bother to get out of bed in the morning, let alone find paid employment. Young women deliberately getting pregnant, because they will qualify for council housing, knowing that they will not need to find work, as they will be kept on benefits. You don't have to go very far in the UK to find families on benefits, often there are one or two cars outside, and a Sky dish on the wall, these people are not in genuine need. In spite if this, your answer would be to make all those over 60, to be means tested, most of them having worked forty years or so, and paid into the system for all of those years. No doubt you and I are in a position to be able to live comfortably without added assistance, but many are not.

The NHS has been wonderful for me over the last five years, after returning from Cyprus, where they gave up on me at Paphos General. I have received treatment at The Bank Of Cyprus Hospital in Nicosia, which I have to say I found excellent.

As I see it the NHS is wasting money on clerical staff, managers, managers, and more managers, all with secretaries, too many chiefs and not enough Indians ! More money is not being thrown at the NHS, on the contrary, they are being told to cut back with less funding available. Bring back Matron, we didn't need all these pen pushers when she was in charge of the hospitals.



Jackie