Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

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Varky
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by Varky »

Hudswell wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:19 am Actually your last sentence is not far from the reality.....after the 2003 Iraq war there was a period of relative calm, and then the insurgents moved in filling the vacuum left by the removal of Hussain..there simply was not a plan and i do believe that was the failure of the west, but also the complete inability of the country to grasp the oppourtunity and put their tribal animosity behind them.
Not quite correct. A Shiite dominated government moved in to fill the vacuum left by Saddam with the tacit approval of the West. It was the failure of this government to govern in the name of the whole population of Iraq, including the Sunnis that created ISIL, Daersh etc. and will inevitably lead to the Kurds declaring independence, with all that might bring in the way of further bloodshed.

Militarily it might have been a success from a western point of view but geo-politically it was a total disaster and, despite Saddam Hussein being an out and out tyrant, should never have been embarked upon. If he was a tyrant he was their tyrant.
WHL
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by WHL »

Blair and Bush .....War criminals. No more no less, lied to the British people, result hundreds of thousands dead, city's destroyed the creation of Isis, yet some on here spin the same old party propaganda...shame on them :roll:
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Jimgward
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by Jimgward »

Hudswell wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:23 pm HIC, I am afraid the can of worms was opened many years ago..ISIS and those that will follow was envitable..it is the nature of the "religion" that these people relate to..and it will continue to grow and will infect the world..and I for one would rather it was exterminated in its countries of birth rather on the streets of my children....or Cyprus, or any any other country...I am not defending Bush or Blair...but I will defend an Armed Forces that defended and continue to defend its country...
Hudswell, I genuinely would like to know what you think was achieved in Iraq? You believe we defended our country? From what? The insidious element that caused 9-11 and has bred Daesh and supported it, is Saudi Arabia..... it’s been well documented yet we continue to cow-tow to them, for their oils and sand-dollars.... capitalism, I’m afraid is the only reasons Iraq happened.
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Jimgward
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by Jimgward »

Of course I do. I detest Daesh and what it stood for. However, I’ll agree to disagree over Iraq. We brought them nothing. There is less freedom than before and an estimate 500,000 died as a consequence. Iraq was never proven to export terrorism. It was a country more civilised in many ways, than other middle eastern countries. Christians were free to live and worship under Saddam. Now, almost all wiped out. Yes, saddam was a tyrant, but perhaps that was needed to manage such a country. Too many paid a price of us interfering, purely for capitalist reasons, on the US side.
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Jimgward
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by Jimgward »

Lloyd, I fear more if he moves into Iran. Iran is actually apparently very westernised in it's cities, with women not allowing extremes of Islamic cultures. However, the poorer and less educated country people are apparently easily radicalised. I remember when we invaded Iraq, a colleague originally from Iran but not allowed to return, told me that uneducated Iranians would go to war on the back of it being declared holy. They would gladly die for that cause. He warned against the West ever messing up Iran as it actually, despite a lot of rhetoric and provocation of Israel, was a stabilising influence in the area. Daesh was always opposed by Iran and Trump appears to be mixing for a war there.... God help us all.
Kili01
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by Kili01 »

There is a great deal of truth in what Hudswell has written. Whether you happen to agree or not!! To me it seems very sad and rather unpatriotic for Britsh persons to continually seek to twist what has been documented and explained by Hudswell about the basis on which the SBA's were set up.
As he said, had the Greek Cypriots chosen to wait a bit for their Independance, it could have been implemented without a guerilla war in which there were many needless deaths.
Examples of an orderly handover of power in former British Colonies are in Malta and more recently in Hong Kong. In both cases there was an absence of bloodshed and relations between these countries and the UK were and have remained very good.
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WHL
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by WHL »

Kili01 wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:55 pm There is a great deal of truth in what Hudswell has written. Whether you happen to agree or not!! To me it seems very sad and rather unpatriotic for Britsh persons to continually seek to twist what has been documented and explained by Hudswell about the basis on which the SBA's were set up.
As he said, had the Greek Cypriots chosen to wait a bit for their Independance, it could have been implemented without a guerilla war in which there were many needless deaths.
Examples of an orderly handover of power in former British Colonies are in Malta and more recently in Hong Kong. In both cases there was an absence of bloodshed and relations between these countries and the UK were and have remained very good.
Dee
Not true, in Parliament when asked will Cyprus gain Independence, the minister replied, No there are some country's so strategically important that they will never get Independence,,,cant remember the guys name, but theres google if anyone wants to check it.....as for the being, unpatriotic clap trap..some of us can see beyond whats fed to us :roll:
There you go http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... ode=fich20
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Dominic
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by Dominic »

So when would they have been in a position? In 10 years? In 20 years? In 30 years?

Sometimes, the only correct answer to the question: "when should we get out?" is "You shouldn't have got in."
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WHL
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by WHL »

Hudswell wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:42 am
WHL wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:57 pm
Kili01 wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:55 pm There is a great deal of truth in what Hudswell has written. Whether you happen to agree or not!! To me it seems very sad and rather unpatriotic for Britsh persons to continually seek to twist what has been documented and explained by Hudswell about the basis on which the SBA's were set up.
As he said, had the Greek Cypriots chosen to wait a bit for their Independance, it could have been implemented without a guerilla war in which there were many needless deaths.
Examples of an orderly handover of power in former British Colonies are in Malta and more recently in Hong Kong. In both cases there was an absence of bloodshed and relations between these countries and the UK were and have remained very good.
Dee
Not true, in Parliament when asked will Cyprus gain Independence, the minister replied, No there are some country's so strategically important that they will never get Independence,,,cant remember the guys name, but theres google if anyone wants to check it.....as for the being, unpatriotic clap trap..some of us can see beyond whats fed to us :roll:
There you go http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... ode=fich20
It is clear from your "clip" that the minister in question made a "Boris" like gaffe and was roundly slapped down...Cyprus would have been granted independence, along with Malta etc....the violence in the 50's had little to do with independence and everything to do with Enosis..unity with Greece, just how indendent was that?
You are just guessing no more or less,... His only Boris like gaffe was letting the truth, slip out.. but never mind Im sure Dee will believe every word you post . ;)
WHL
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by WHL »

Dominic wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:58 am So when would they have been in a position? In 10 years? In 20 years? In 30 years?

Sometimes, the only correct answer to the question: "when should we get out?" is "You shouldn't have got in."
Good Post,.... Alexander the Great, conquered half the World, but even he had to get out of Afghanistan, fast forward to the Soviets, they shot and bombed every thing that moved there, yet they had to leave with their tails between their legs, the sad thing is we have some on here who think that if they try and defend the indefensible long enough, the rest of us will believe it.
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Dominic
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by Dominic »

WHL, your last two posts would have had a lot more impact without the comments about other posters. Just an observation.
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by WHL »

Dominic wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:31 am WHL, your last two posts would have had a lot more impact without the comments about other posters. Just an observation.
Point taken :oops:
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by WHL »

Hudswell wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:22 pm Actually WHL I really care less about what you wish to believe. And I am not guessing about Independance for Cyprus, many countries that made up the British Empire had already negotiated their Independance, Malta is a prime example of the path that Cyprus could have followed instead of choosing violence. And my comments in regard to Afghan are based on real life experience, education and training...not Google. It would be comforting to believe that if we just sat back then those that wish our society harm would just do the same....unfortunately that does not happen and I truely hope you are never touched by war, terrorism or violence, luckily for you there are people out there willing to put their lives on the line so you don't have to.
If it wasn't for lying War criminals, like Blair and Bush..they wouldn't have to :roll:
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Jimgward
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by Jimgward »

I have yet to see a report of terrorism in the world where Afghan is put as the backers or even the perpetrators.

Afghan was about an oil pipeline route. Nothing more

As to terrorism, Britain trained and equipped the Taliban to fight the Russians. Seeds sown.
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Jimgward
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by Jimgward »

Hudswell wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:22 pm Actually WHL I really care less about what you wish to believe. And I am not guessing about Independance for Cyprus, many countries that made up the British Empire had already negotiated their Independance, Malta is a prime example of the path that Cyprus could have followed instead of choosing violence. And my comments in regard to Afghan are based on real life experience, education and training...not Google. It would be comforting to believe that if we just sat back then those that wish our society harm would just do the same....unfortunately that does not happen and I truely hope you are never touched by war, terrorism or violence, luckily for you there are people out there willing to put their lives on the line so you don't have to.
I think you’ll find that truthfully, countries had bad experiences getting independence from Britain. Aden, Egypt and of course Ireland, to name a few.
WHL
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Re: Discussion on future of Bases to start next week

Post by WHL »

Jimgward wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:19 pm
Hudswell wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:22 pm Actually WHL I really care less about what you wish to believe. And I am not guessing about Independance for Cyprus, many countries that made up the British Empire had already negotiated their Independance, Malta is a prime example of the path that Cyprus could have followed instead of choosing violence. And my comments in regard to Afghan are based on real life experience, education and training...not Google. It would be comforting to believe that if we just sat back then those that wish our society harm would just do the same....unfortunately that does not happen and I truely hope you are never touched by war, terrorism or violence, luckily for you there are people out there willing to put their lives on the line so you don't have to.
I think you’ll find that truthfully, countries had bad experiences getting independence from Britain. Aden, Egypt and of course Ireland, to name a few.
How many were massacred in India, etc etc... Now where can I get some of those Rose tinted glasses?
https://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evi ... sh-empire/
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