Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

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ApusApus
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Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by ApusApus »

Interesting article on the Beeb website today http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40860911!

As I understand it, the majority of a plane's flight is already controlled by computer but are we ready to accept that it could control all of it to a point where the pilot is unnecessary?

How long before it becomes a reality ......................... ?


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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by Dominic »

I've been on pilotless trains before. They had lots of teething problems though. I would hate to think of the teething problems pilotless plains would have.
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by Firefly »

Knowing how many times a computer has problems, not in a million years.

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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by PaphosAL »

Having flown a couple of times from LTN-PFO-LTN with Helios on the very same Boeing 737-300 before it crashed in Greece on 14 August 2005 (Flight 522 from Larnaca to Athens), killing all 121 souls on board, I count myself lucky to still to be here...

Then I watched too many episodes of the likes of 'Air Crash Investigation' and 'Seconds to Disaster' on Nat Geo for my own good. To the extent that I have no compunction whatsoever to board an airliner these days, whether it be piloted, or pilotless!

A good memory to share with you all, though, whilst on this controversial topic. Back in the early 90's, a good friend of mine was a co-pilot with Britannia on 767 aircraft. His older friend and pilot was due for an official Britannia 767 Flight Simulator test at LTN to upgrade his 737 (analogue instruments) Licence to 767 (digital).

The evening before, my mate (Tim Hornby, affectionately known as Timmy Trainset at work and in our local) had booked the 767 Sim for an hour, for free, in order to give his colleague a kind of induction course. He asked me if I'd like to sit in watch. Jumped at it!!!

I sat in the jump seat behind Alistaire (in trainee pilot mode) while Tim occupied his usual co-pilot seat on the right. Absolutely fascinating to watch and listen to them. And spooky how the Sim (which was £300 per hour back then) really felt like a real 767, including background sounds, forward visuals and so on...

After a few circuits and bumps, taking off and landing at the 'virtual' LTN from both directions, Alistaire was happy. His last approach was coming in from the East over Stevenage on auto-pilot. Then Tim sprang his surprise! Alistaire got out of the captain's seat, and I was asked to occupy it and bring the 767 down safely at LTN at night!!!

Could not believe the feedback through the foot and hand controls, it was like, for real... Just like a Hollywood movie, when the hero brings a hi-jacked jumbo jet down safely, LOL! Anyway, I DID land her safely and fairly straight, though Tim did say that I might have knocked off a few runway lights with our port wing in the process!

What an experience THAT was for me... They didn't have to put their hands in their pockets for a couple of pints of beer in our favourite village pub afterwards, where the post analysis discussion was equally fascinating.

Pilotless airliners? Not from what I witnessed on pre-flight checks, take off, and final landing approach that evening! Pilot-less missile carrying drones are much talked about these days. Let us please bear in mind that such platforms are in reality being 'flown and controlled' by a guy in Florida, sitting in front of a HD console, working a joystick! And still mistakes happen...

Sorry for the lengthy diatribe, folks! AL :)
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by 71 Trans Am »

Around 10 years ago i worked for an American Company Wraytech Instruments Connecticut - We installed computers into commercial vehicles for the Waste management industry and at that time we were also selling a lot of equipment including Smart Sensors to Boeing for a joint venture with UPS Worldwide to develop pilotless cargo planes for the future but i have never heard it mentioned again until now - At the time we were constantly talking about it - Like could it be possible = Would they dare try it - And many other questions - Our MD once said to us How do you know that it is not already happening as you do not need a pilot to fly a plane or take off and land it, It was quite thought provoking at the time. And who knows for sure that it is not happening ? how would you find out ?
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by Lofos-5 »

I thought many drones dropping Americans bombs all over the world are already remotely piloted from somewhere in the US - or was this just a Hollywood movie and nothing to do with reality?

And Amazon recently has done some deliveries by drone as well already?

Plus we are sending spaceships to far away places w/o pilots too.

Not that much of an imaginary step to get a pilot-less passenger plane I think. Computers could well be more reliable than humans in that respect (as long as they do not run on Windows XP :? ).

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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by PaphosAL »

or Linux Ubuntu 10 /12 LOL!

and yes, the drones ARE 'piloted' by a man or woman sitting in front of a console in Florida, flying the drone by means of a joystick control, by means of a HD camera in the front of the drone, and GPS etc.

I bet that after missile launch, it takes HD photos of the strike area as well, and transmits them straight back to mission control. And is then brought back safely for touch down at at it's launch base, ready to be prepared for it's next mission. These drones cost millions of dollars each and are quite large! Not quite like the radio controlled model aircraft we used to build and fly when we were in yesteryear...

Cheers- AL :)
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Last edited by PaphosAL on Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by WHL »

No
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by PaphosAL »

WHL wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:08 pmNo
Take it that you would not fly on a pilot-less aeroplane, WHL? Or were you disagreeing with my previous post about US Military armed remote controlled drones? :?
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by Mark »

Depends of the skill of some 15 year old hacker, who undoubtedly will have the skill to take control of said aircraft.

Or the motivations of a terrorist hacker who may have other intentions.

Maybe I'm saying no!
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by WHL »

PaphosAL wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:27 pm
WHL wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:08 pmNo
Take it that you would not fly on a pilot-less aeroplane, WHL? Or were you disagreeing with my previous post about US Military armed remote controlled drones? :?
Al .... no pilot no get on plane... :shock:
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by PaphosAL »

Don't think that an amateur or terrorist hacker would be able to decrypt the 128 or 256 bit US Navy encryption codes used these days for secure comms...

But safe in that knowledge, I still don't fancy flying again, pilot or no pilot!

Cheers- AL :roll:
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by WHL »

Didn't they say that about the Titanic! :shock: l
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by Mark »

Thanks Al

I have no doubt that US encryption codes are secure for now, for now being the operative words.

Look at flight radar 24, you will be astounded by the number of aircraft over the UK right now, it only takes one error, computer or otherwise to cause untold destruction and misery.

Pilots are highly trained to deal with any eventuality, a computer will not fly an airoplane with a complete power failure, a pilot can.

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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by 71 Trans Am »

I think you will find that a pilot will not fly a plane with a complete power failure - Not the planes of today anyway when the hydraulics go off it is curtains - i was always told that the old turbo props could be landed with all engines out as they were designed to glide without the use of flaps the same as a glider and correct me if i am wrong, But today's passenger planes go down like a stone - No Power - No Plane
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by Mark »

Most modern aircraft will glide for up to 100 miles following complete engine failure.
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by WHL »

71 Trans Am wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:43 pm I think you will find that a pilot will not fly a plane with a complete power failure - Not the planes of today anyway when the hydraulics go off it is curtains - i was always told that the old turbo props could be landed with all engines out as they were designed to glide without the use of flaps the same as a glider and correct me if i am wrong, But today's passenger planes go down like a stone - No Power - No Plane
How did the pilot manage to land on the Hudson River !
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by Kili01 »

I agree, My late husband was an airline pilot with many 1,000's of hours. He used to say that having auto pilot was very useful,but boring for the pilots who only had to sit there and monitor it. But when something went wrong or in bad weather, the pilot should be able to over ride the auto pilot when necessary. The problem is that some of the newer 'glass cockpit 'aircraft have automatic flight controls.But even so I would not want to fly in a pilotless aircraft. Also the Captain has overall responsibility and control over the whole aircraft which includes the crew and the passengers. You couldn't delegate that to a machine.

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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by PaphosAL »

Well said, Dee! I agree with you 100%! The pilot is the Captain of the aircraft, as you correctly state.

What's the next dopey 'wish list' idea? Crewless cross channel ferries? Imagine that, if you can...

AL :)
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Re: Would You Fly On a Pilotless Plane

Post by 71 Trans Am »

The Hudson river incident the plane still had power but was in serious trouble and had limited time to come straight down and as it had only taken off a short distance from the hudson river this was deemed the safest place to put it down by the hero pilot thinking on his feet - No river it would have been a different story - And yes if you are at 35,000 feet it will glide a lot more than 100 miles if you want to call it gliding as it is actually going down as quickly as gravity will pull it to destruction - The point you are missing is no power then that is the end no matter how far it glides or whether or not you have a river handy
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