Cyprus talks crash without a deal

[Paphos Life]

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Read the article and chat about it below...

[WHL]

Hands up anyone surprised? These talks continue to be a complete waste of time and as always come to nothing. Neither side is willing to make the compromises necessary to make a breakthrough, the distrust remains and will remain for the foreseeable future. Both side are of course at fault, but it seems to me that the ROC simply wants to return to pre 1974 times, and that is never going to happen...I honestly believe a two,state solution is the probable and likely outcome...

Not true The ROC has agreed to a federal solution, Turkeys insistence on keeping troops here has scuppered an agreement. as for a two state solution the legitimate ROC will never agree to it.

[geoffreys]

Hands up anyone surprised? These talks continue to be a complete waste of time and as always come to nothing. Neither side is willing to make the compromises necessary to make a breakthrough, the distrust remains and will remain for the foreseeable future. Both side are of course at fault, but it seems to me that the ROC simply wants to return to pre 1974 times, and that is never going to happen...I honestly believe a two,state solution is the probable and likely outcome...

Not true The ROC has agreed to a federal solution, Turkeys insistence on keeping troops here has scuppered an agreement. as for a two state solution the legitimate ROC will never agree to it.

True or not, a so called federal solution won't happen either, for the reasons Hudswell details.
Given that situation, mainland Turkey will lose patience with the whole thing and annex "north" Cyprus.
Which is tantamount to the 2 State solution.
They will have their own Govt, as we do.
They will have their own religion, as we do.
They will have a source of money (Turkey), as we do (the EU + IMF).
As part of Turkey they will have direct flights to everywhere, as we do.
They will have foreign troops in their territory (Turkish), as we do (Greek and British).
You can argue until the cows come home as to whether you like the above or not, but that is the way it sure looks like going!
Geoff.

[Varky]

Turkey not only wanted the right to station its troops on the island but also wanted the right to intervene on the island. Would anyone agree to those terms.

[WHL]

Turkey not only wanted the right to station its troops on the island but also wanted the right to intervene on the island. Would anyone agree to those terms.

Exactly

[Varky]

Turkey not only wanted the right to station its troops on the island but also wanted the right to intervene on the island. Would anyone agree to those terms.

Yes Varky, like it or not the Turkish do have a,right as guarantors , to intervene if the circumstances require, as it happened in 1974, what happened after that was wrong..they stayed...but they stayed because The TC wanted the protection they afforded...this should have been sorted immediately after the event...it wasn't, it has just gone on too long.

Two things to ask/mention (1) under what circumstances/agreements did the Turks have the right of intervention (I am not disputing that they had the right, just wanting to know the details), (2) I am talking about the situation now, not as it was in 1974.

[josef k]

A very sad outcome. However, we must wait for the full UN report to see what the situation really is. Unless there is something significant we do not yet know, then I believe this was very much the "last chance saloon" as there is nowhere to go from here.
I don't think Turkey will annex the north as it is technically EU territory. However, they may well push harder for recognition for the north and, if successful, that would end talks for good.

As I have said elsewhere, Cyprus (both sides) has a lot of politicians but no statesmen.

[jeba]

In 1974 a Greek led coup took place and overthrew the legitimate government of Cyprus with the aim of "Enosis"

I wonder whether GCs would still want "enosis" nowadays. Those I asked haven´t really given me an answer. Is this too sensitive an issue to ask them? I never managed to wrap my head around why they would want that in the first place. It seems counterintuitive to me that a country wants to give up it´s independence. A bit like as if Liechtenstein wanted to join Switzerland or Austria to join Germany. Why would they want that, I wonder.

[geoffreys]

In 1974 a Greek led coup took place and overthrew the legitimate government of Cyprus with the aim of "Enosis"

I wonder whether GCs would still want "enosis" nowadays. Those I asked haven´t really given me an answer. Is this too sensitive an issue to ask them? I never managed to wrap my head around why they would want that in the first place. It seems counterintuitive to me that a country wants to give up it´s independence. A bit like as if Liechtenstein wanted to join Switzerland or Austria to join Germany. Why would they want that, I wonder.

Because they are GCs!
That's the way they are, not much logic I am afraid.
Geoff.

[josef k]

Sorry Huds, have to disagree. When Cyprus joined the EU it joined as a whole island (minus the SBAs) and simultaneously the aquis communicare (that made Cyprus part of the EU) was suspended for the north pending reunification. Therefore the north is indeed technically part of the EU although not in day to day practice. The interesting thing is that if the north was to be recognised as a legitimate and independent state, it may automatically become part of the EU and therefore borders between the north and south would be illegal, and free movement of capital and people would be required. A can of worms.

[WHL]

Sorry Huds, have to disagree. When Cyprus joined the EU it joined as a whole island (minus the SBAs) and simultaneously the aquis communicare (that made Cyprus part of the EU) was suspended for the north pending reunification. Therefore the north is indeed technically part of the EU although not in day to day practice. The interesting thing is that if the north was to be recognised as a legitimate and independent state, it may automatically become part of the EU and therefore borders between the north and south would be illegal, and free movement of capital and people would be required. A can of worms.

The occupied north, has only been recognized by one country, namely the invader Turkey, in all these decades, Turkeys Dictator Erdogan and many past Turkish leaders have tried everything to get the north recognized by other nations, and failed miserably, even closest Dictator chums, such as Azerbaijan dont wont to know, that tells you the occupied north will never be recognized by the International community, stolen property remains stolen, no matter how many years pass, So the next step for the Dictator Erdogan would be to annex the north, but even the Turks know, that would create so many legal problems, that they wont go for it, I believe there will be a solution one day, because just like the Berlin wall, and the fall of communism, if its wrong one day it will fall....then we have the forums politicians and ex military chaps that come on and spin History, never admitting that everyone involved in the Cyprus problem Greece/Turkey/Britain, have blood on their hands, and provide nothing to the debate except their pro Turkish wishful thinking, we are just guests here,we seem to forget that, and it will be the Cypriots who decide the future of Cyprus not some forum posters with an axe to grind.

[Dominic]

..then we have the forums politicians and ex military chaps that come on and spin History, never admitting that everyone involved in the Cyprus problem Greece/Turkey/Britain, have blood on their hands, and provide nothing to the debate except their pro Turkish wishful thinking, we are just guests here,we seem to forget that, and it will be the Cypriots who decide the future of Cyprus not some forum posters with an axe to grind.

Given that your posts often provide nothing to the debate except to hurl abuse at other forum members, I don't think you can criticise other people's posting habits.

[WHL]

..then we have the forums politicians and ex military chaps that come on and spin History, never admitting that everyone involved in the Cyprus problem Greece/Turkey/Britain, have blood on their hands, and provide nothing to the debate except their pro Turkish wishful thinking, we are just guests here,we seem to forget that, and it will be the Cypriots who decide the future of Cyprus not some forum posters with an axe to grind.

Given that your posts often provide nothing to the debate except to hurl abuse at other forum members, I don't think you can criticise other people's posting habits.

Dominic, I think your find, I give back what im dished out, if someone is civil with me, I reply in kind, but if someone attacks me, then I will respond,

[Dominic]

I can't see anybody on this thread having a pop at you at all. Have I missed something?

[WHL]

I was talking generally not on this thread....yes there are some who have a pop or two.

[Dominic]

Ah, it's a question of where the pop is had though. It's like the Saloon Bar and Public Bar in a pub.The Politics Section is the Public Bar. Beer's a bit cheaper and there's a pool table. The News and General Sections are The Saloon Bar. The Pit is the Downham Tavern.

[WHL]

Ah, it's a question of where the pop is had though. It's like the Saloon Bar and Public Bar in a pub.The Politics Section is the Public Bar. Beer's a bit cheaper and there's a pool table. The News and General Sections are The Saloon Bar. The Pit is the Downham Tavern.

Great comeback

[jeba]

I wonder whether the TCs are seeing the Turkish army as protectors or more as occupants?

[WHL]

Its got nothing to do with mistrust, we are not living back in the fifties, since the crossings opened up. hundreds and hundreds of thousands of G/T Cypriots have crossed over, with only a handful of mishaps, go to Ikea and a third of the cars in the car park are T/cypriot registered , the same for Lidls etc, go to Mac Ds and your find many T/Cypriots enjoying themselves...larnaca at the weekends is awash with T/cypriots eating in the restaurants, no its got nothing to do with mistrust with the majority of Cypriots, more to do with not wanting to loose properties / land acquired after the invasion, more economical then anything else. the only ones who hold on to the hate are the handful of Goldern dawn/Grey wolf thugs.