Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Chat with fellow forum users. No adverts or trade links in here please.
User avatar
Aargent
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:40 am
Location: Theletra Village

Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Aargent »

A lot of you will know that I have never thought that Electric cars were the answer.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/ca ... -Leicester

I also believe that disposing of the old batteries is going to be a major problem
Alastair

Nil illigitimi carborundum
WHL
Posts: 6861
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by WHL »

I think that the biggest obstacle will be, charging the cars up, not everyone has the luxury of parking their car outside their house.
User avatar
Devil
Forum Curmudgeon
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:34 am
Location: Mosfiloti

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Devil »

Aargent wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:06 pm I also believe that disposing of the old batteries is going to be a major problem
both forms of lithium minerals, hydroxide or carbonate, are currently well into the tens of thousands of dollars/tonne. Recycling used batteries produces a black mass in which the used lithium forms a part. I'm given to understand that it is extremely difficult and costly to extract the lithium in the required quality for recycling, despite the high cost of virgin minerals. I don't know the exact pounds, shillings and pence of it. What I do know is that if the world went electric vehicle only, we wouldn't have enough lithium from the traditional sources in South America and China (I don't know if there are any other exploitable places). In my opinion, there will come a time when recycling lithium will become necessary at any cost and your old batteries will become financially exploitable, but we will require new technology to be able to obtain it, in the required quality.

Although complex lithium compounds are used in traction car batteries, don't forget vast quantities are also used for such things as laptops, power storage systems et cetera. My guess is that electric car manufacturers are beginning to gnaw their fingernails up to their elbows as the prices are shooting up. My guess is that the average size electric car will be more expensive in a few years than today.
bmwx5
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:18 pm

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by bmwx5 »

Mouse please advise what bus would I get from Paphos to Aphrodites GC and back again ?
Steve - SJD
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Steve - SJD »

Necessity is the mother of invention:

Scientists invent method to recycle environmentally-damaging lithium-ion batteries used in electric cars
that sees the cells crushed into ‘black dust’ before being separated into valuable component metals.

Progress will continue and obstacles overcome/addressed - perhaps not overnight but significant
development have already been made in a relatively short space of time.

Cheers

Steve
User avatar
cyprusmax47
Chief Cat Spotter
Posts: 4968
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:10 am
Location: Paphos area since 1982

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by cyprusmax47 »

I mentioned it already in a separate post yesterday...

"A 13 MWh battery made of worn lithium-ion batteries from electric cars is being constructed in Germany, with an expected second life of 10 years, after which they will be recycled"

source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_s ... er_station
Germany

Max
User avatar
Devil
Forum Curmudgeon
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:34 am
Location: Mosfiloti

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Devil »

Just now, I'm still not convinced of the future of recycling lithium or lithium batteries on a large scale. That having been said, the following sentence has been extracted from cmax47's article and this starts to make a little bit of sense.

"Grid batteries do not however have to be large, and smaller ones can be deployed widely across a grid for greater redundancy."
User avatar
Aargent
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:40 am
Location: Theletra Village

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Aargent »

Although very interesting about recycling batteries the main point of the post was to draw attention to the fact that in this case the battery had lasted 8 years and the fact that to replace them would cost £ 15000 , more than the car was worth, a fact that, I would suspect that most owners of electric or hybrid cars had not taken into consideration.¿
Alastair

Nil illigitimi carborundum
User avatar
Devil
Forum Curmudgeon
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:34 am
Location: Mosfiloti

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Devil »

Aargent wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:17 pm Although very interesting about recycling batteries the main point of the post was to draw attention to the fact that in this case the battery had lasted 8 years and the fact that to replace them would cost £ 15000 , more than the car was worth, a fact that, I would suspect that most owners of electric or hybrid cars had not taken into consideration.¿
This statement could be very misleading. Most hybrid cars (not plug-in) have nickel metal hydride batteries which do not cost anything like pounds Sterling 15,000. In fact, for them, the cost would be approximately 1/10 of your price. I no longer drive but my last two cars were hybrids and my last one, a Lexus CT100H, was over nine years old when I sold it, still with the original battery, but a replacement for it would have been €2000 (and that is more than for some other makes). As its market value at nine years was still €8500, changing the batteries would still have been worthwhile.
User avatar
Aargent
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:40 am
Location: Theletra Village

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Aargent »

" I'm given to understand that it is extremely difficult and costly to extract the lithium in the required quality for recycling, despite the high cost of virgin minerals. I don't know the exact pounds, shillings and pence of it. What I do know is that if the world went electric vehicle only, we wouldn't have enough lithium from the traditional sources in South America and China (I don't know if there are any other exploitable places). In my opinion, there will come a time when recycling lithium will become necessary at any cost and your old batteries will become financially exploitable, but we will require new technology to be able to obtain it, in the required quality" Quote by Devil

They have found Lithium in Cornwall

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/sc ... could-mean
Alastair

Nil illigitimi carborundum
User avatar
Devil
Forum Curmudgeon
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:34 am
Location: Mosfiloti

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Devil »

The article sounds to me to be a little bit iffy. To be fair, most of the articles on this subject are iffy! We shall see what we shall see!
jeba
Posts: 1495
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:38 pm

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by jeba »

Renault has for years been offering to lease the battery, so that recycling won't be a headache for the costumer.
Firefly
Posts: 3040
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:08 pm
Location: Hereford UK

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Firefly »

With most homes in the UK having two to three cars, charging (most likely every evening) would surely drain the national grid. Or has that already been addressed ?
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
User avatar
Lincoln
Posts: 3068
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:56 am
Location: Polis

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Lincoln »

Surely the answer is HYBRID rather than full electric motors. The best of both worlds.
All things are possible
Jim B
Posts: 2750
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Jim B »

I believe in Cyprus the generation of electricity is near to capacity during the summer months so the potential to provide power charging facilities just isn't there.
Like Lincoln I think Hybrids are way to go but presently the cost of buying one is prohibitive to most people.
User avatar
cyprusmax47
Chief Cat Spotter
Posts: 4968
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:10 am
Location: Paphos area since 1982

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by cyprusmax47 »

Lincoln wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:30 am Surely the answer is HYBRID rather than full electric motors. The best of both worlds.
But then a so called plug-in (PHEV) electric hybrid car, that you are able to charge it at home p.e. with your own electricity produced from PV.

(first one in Green Air's fleet, summer 2019)
Image

Max
Jim B
Posts: 2750
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Jim B »

Max
I must say I'm not up on electric or hybrid cars for that matter but don't hybrids recharge themselves.
Also I don't think the number of the population with PV systems exceeds 10% and it is an expensive outlay as is buying an electric or hybrid car which in many cases are over €10,000 more costly than a top of the range petrol engine of the same model.
Twice I was informed that I would get a substantial government subsidy for one PV system and a solar pump, both were withdrawn and I had to cover the full cost.
To become more Eco Friendly we decided to go for a Heat Pump and again we were initially under the impression that the government were going to subsidise them only when placing our order we were told the government was again removing the subsidy which basically doubles the cost of the system.
trevnhil
Posts: 7093
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:12 pm
Location: Polemi

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by trevnhil »

Regarding charging battery-powered cars, there is a section in the New items in the highway code (UK)

10. Electric car owners should take provisions to not trip pedestrians with their charging cables
Finally, the Highway Code now has new instructions for electric vehicle users. And one of these is primarily focused on what to do when using a charging point.

Drivers should park as close to the device as possible so the charging cable doesn't become a trip hazard for people walking.

And if they are concerned someone might fall over the cord, they should put out a warning sign near their vehicle.

The guidance also states that they should neatly return the charging cables in the device so they don't cause a hazard for pedestrians when not in use.
Trev..
User avatar
Devil
Forum Curmudgeon
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:34 am
Location: Mosfiloti

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by Devil »

Lincoln wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:30 am Surely the answer is HYBRID rather than full electric motors. The best of both worlds.
As my having been the owner of two hybrid cars, over the years, your idea is all very well but where are you going to get the petrol to run a hybrid after 2050? (Possibly even before then).
WHL
Posts: 6861
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: Battery Chickens coming home to roost

Post by WHL »

trevnhil wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:11 am Regarding charging battery-powered cars, there is a section in the New items in the highway code (UK)

10. Electric car owners should take provisions to not trip pedestrians with their charging cables
Finally, the Highway Code now has new instructions for electric vehicle users. And one of these is primarily focused on what to do when using a charging point.

Drivers should park as close to the device as possible so the charging cable doesn't become a trip hazard for people walking.

And if they are concerned someone might fall over the cord, they should put out a warning sign near their vehicle.

The guidance also states that they should neatly return the charging cables in the device so they don't cause a hazard for pedestrians when not in use.
The Lawyers are hearing the merry sound of cha chinging as we speak :lol:

Post Reply