Coal, really?

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PhotoLady
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Coal, really?

Post by PhotoLady »

European gas price surge prompts switch to coal

PARIS, Oct 12 (Reuters) - Soaring European wholesale gas prices are encouraging more utilities to switch to carbon-heavy coal to generate electricity just as the region tries to wean nations off the polluting fuel.

Although European coal and carbon prices have also jumped in recent months, they have lagged the spike in gas prices, causing short-term marginal costs to shift in favour of using coal to generate electricity.

Gas-fired power plants had been cheaper to operate than their coal-burning equivalents for more than two years due to the added cost of carbon emissions, but that changed in around July this year.

"While European coal generation was handcuffed by record carbon prices in the early parts of the summer, soaring TTF (Dutch gas) prices have now unlocked the gas-to-coal switching lever," said analysts at Bank of America.

Full article from Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 2021-10-12
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Kili01
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by Kili01 »

Well if the price of gas continues to rise, Govt's in cold parts of the world may well start to use coal if its easily obtainable. Coal was the traditional fuel and used in power stations to produce electricity for essential needs. Unfortunately, I seem to remember reading somewhere that the UK no longer has more than 1 coal mine left and probably not capable of producing anything. So I hope that the UK will have sufficient ability to generate enough power for its needs , domestic and for industry ,this winter if the weather gets very cold.
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by PhotoLady »

Smog, will be back. We've got enough smoke issues with all the logburners where we live.
I like to sleep with the windows open to allow fresh air into the bedroom, but some nights when we go in, we're almost chewing on woodsmoke.
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JimX
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by JimX »

A return to Cy maybe?
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Jim B
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by Jim B »

Kili01 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:12 pm Well if the price of gas continues to rise, Govt's in cold parts of the world may well start to use coal if its easily obtainable. Coal was the traditional fuel and used in power stations to produce electricity for essential needs. Unfortunately, I seem to remember reading somewhere that the UK no longer has more than 1 coal mine left and probably not capable of producing anything. So I hope that the UK will have sufficient ability to generate enough power for its needs , domestic and for industry ,this winter if the weather gets very cold.
Dee
The UK hasn't been self sufficient in electricity for quite a while, it's a net importer of energy from France and the Netherlands. It is now in discussions about importing electricity from Norway.
Uncle D
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by Uncle D »

The UK has kept some coal fired power stations running for exactly the reasons that they are facing now, their normal out put is 2.2% of the power needed but can be stepped up, I would expect that they wouldn't do this without stockpiling coal reserves for that very purpose.
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by Devil »

Any shortfall in the supply of natural gas, liquid fuels and coal has been made deliberately. This was done by the producers, notably in the USA and Russia, to make it appear that we are approaching a crisis; that artificial crisis is a desperate attempt to make as much profit as possible, while the going was good. The trouble is that it's not the producers shooting themselves in the foot but the government's attempts to force the situation.

Practically all of the coal burned in Britain has been mined in Poland as a result of Maggie Thatcher's hardline policy of mine closure; the stupid bitch cut off the nation's nose to spite the nation's face. What many people forget is that coal is not the same as coal. The quality can vary from German lignite all the way up to anthracite. The better the quality of the coal, the more unsuitable it becomes for electricity generation. The UK often used better quality call than was really needed for power.
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Devil
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by Devil »

mouse wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:36 am So is a society totally reliant on electricity for all of its power needs a very sensible route ?
It depends on how the electricity is generated. Ideally, if a society has hydroelectric, nuclear, wind, tide, solar, etc as a mix of sources, that would be very sensible. If you have only one of them, then you are at risk of reliability problems. However, there is another factor to consider and that it is cost, cost of implementation and of running. If you rely on only one of the list you're costing would have to include 100% backup. If you have, say, three from the list, each able to supply half the needs of the country, then you would be in a sensible position. If you have all five operational on the list, then it would suffice if each method could provide 30%, then you would still be in a safe position. Quid pro quo!
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by Varky »

mouse wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:36 am So is a society totally reliant on electricity for all of its power needs a very sensible route ?
And what is the alternative to electricity in the present day?
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by PhotoLady »

Our local village had power problems 2 days running this week on Monday and Tuesday morning.

We were down from 11:00 until a few minutes before 15:00hrs. No central heating or hot water and no way to make a brew.

Tuesday we had a Low Mains Voltage alert on our boiler, lights very dim and small electricals not functioning properly.

Power went off again completely for the repairs to be made after a number of us reported the issue.

Same streets as the previous day and affecting around 300 homes on both occasions.

Definitely like 1970s Britain!
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Devil
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by Devil »

PhotoLady wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:17 pm Definitely like 1970s Britain!
In which case, why not choose 2021 Cyprus?
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Re: Coal, really?

Post by PhotoLady »

Devil, you will have to explain that remark. I'm not sure what you mean?
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