Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

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Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

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Ryanair has been accused of barring passengers who pursued chargebacks against the airline during the pandemic from taking new flights this year – unless they return their refunds.

An investigation by MoneySavingExpert (MSE) has found that holidaymakers who sought refunds from their credit card provider have faced last-minute demands of up to £600 if they want to board a Ryanair plane.
Link to the full article in The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ew-flights
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

Post by Dominic »

If I was doing business with somebody and they did a chargeback through their credit card company I wouldn't want to do any further business with them, unless the chargeback had been agreed in advance.

Besides, if I had done business with a company and was so unimpressed with them that I had to do a chargeback through my credit card company, I wouldn't want to do business with them again.

Actions have consequences. People need to accept that, and quite frankly, grow up.
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

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Dominic wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:23 pm Besides, if I had done business with a company and was so unimpressed with them that I had to do a chargeback through my credit card company, I wouldn't want to do business with them again.
Ah but you must also understand, holidaymakers are extremely fickle creatures and no matter how many times they stamp their feet and say "never again", if there's the slightest temptation of a low price deal, they will take it.

I had all of this information at my fingertips when I worked on the post-departure call team at the 3rd largest UK tour operator some years ago. A quick search of their name showed all of their previous complaints which were logged into the system and those immortal words "I will never travel with you again" and yet, there they were at the other end of the line complaining.

It does say quite clearly in the T&Cs of the Ryanair article that a flight which actually operates, isn't refundable and that they may refuse flights after a chargeback has been made. I don't expect anyone actually anticipated they would do that though.

Saying that, the company I worked for had a Black List and it was used from time to time, but not for this type of issue - disruptive passengers and property damage were the most commonly used reasons to blocking them from travelling with us.

I have one such company that I've sworn never to travel with again, which is still operating. They still come up with great deals and promises but we know they cannot keep to them because they only act as selling agents and have absolutely no control over what happens after they have taken your money. They come in a guise of names, but I know them all. We are not biting that hand again.

The other company we had a big problem with crashed and burned last year. It was a happy cremation.... and yes, I eventually did a chargeback because they were not operating in accordance with their ABTA licence guidelines. It took 7 months to get that back, I threatened our credit card company in the end with suing them jointly and severally for the debt with the travel company.
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

Post by Dominic »

Ah ok, when you said "you couldn't make this stuff up" I thought you were implying that Ryan Air were being outrageous.
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

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Not only that, Lloyd.
They said the flights would still operate knowing full well that passengers from certain countries were unable to fly due to the restrictions by their Government rules at the time.

Other operators have been more flexible and allowed cancellations or switches, but sadly Ryanair chose to ignore it, persisting flights were getting in the air.

I just think at this particular time when passengers are still uncertain about travel in general, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Time will tell, I guess... Certainly, it doesn't take much at this moment for passengers to throw their hands in the air with more and more, opting for an all round package holiday with protection rather than flight only or a combination booking.
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

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Happy in Cyprus wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:48 pm The general consensus is that Ryanair are being outrageous.

Let's not forget that at the time these chargebacks took place, the UK was still in the EU. And under EU law Ryanair was legally obliged to refund monies to passengers unable to travel through no fault of their own. We applied for and got a refund from Ryanair for Covid reasons, as I would have expected. I would have taken them to Court had they not.

I, or rather we, will never choose to fly Ryanair when we have an alternative...and price doesn't even come into it.
So if somebody deals with your company then does a unilateral cashback due to some issue, and gets a refund, would you be happy doing business with them again?

The whole reason Ryan Air exists is because they are a no-thrills budget airline and have a refund policy that fits in with that model. IE you get a cheaper ticket for a higher risk of not being able to get a refund if things go tits up.

Personally, because of that, I avoid companies with that sort of model like the plague. But forgive me if I don't care that other people took the risk and got burnt. People need to understand that "risk" is a real, tangible thing, and not something to be ignored.
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

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I'm sure Lloyd would protect the reputation of his company first and foremost by opening a dialogue with the unhappy customer, so it wouldn't reach the stage of a chargeback - something Ryanair didn't do.
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

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mouse wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:41 am So charge back ! What is this ? How does this differ from just a return of moneys paid for services or goods not supplied or is it just a silly buzzword.
It is when you get money back from the intermediary, ie the Credit Card company, rather than the business itself. Normally because the business disagree with your refund claim. The Credit Card company then claw the money back from the business.
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

Post by Dominic »

Well, not directly. Normally CC companies will have some of the Company's money in their system at any one time. It is just a case of not releasing it, rather than knocking on their door and asking for it back.

It is similar to credit card fraud, in that respect. That's actually quite annoying. A few years ago the company we ran got ripped off by somebody with a dodgy card. We had even phoned up the CC card company to get them to check the card was ok first. Next thing we knew, after we had put 5 grands worth of goods on a plane to Israel, was that the card was stolen. When we found this out, the goods were still on the plane. We told the credit card company this, saying they would be able to catch the thieves in the act and all that. The CC company just weren't interested. They had got the money back from us (by not releasing other funds) so as far as they were concerned the matter was closed.

We were able to get the airport authorities to send the stuff back to us rather than let the thieves pick it up. I was shocked though as to the lack of interest anybody seemed to have in catching the crooks. They are all just content to let the accountants sort it out, which ultimately results in more fees for the regular punters.
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

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Section 75 chargeback scheme is fully explained here:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/recla ... hargeback/

The Facebook group I administrated and helped to launch was successful in helping many elderly passengers in seeking recompense against a holiday company which chose to ignore and walk away from their responsibilities when they were selling holidays knowing they were already struggling to make ends meet some 2yrs before Covid was even known about.

They stepped away from the ABTA rules and code of conduct and slipped under bonding instead.

They filed for administration later in 2020 and only then, did the card companies under the scheme start to settle and add themselves to the ever growing list of creditors.

Some have still not had their monies returned and never will.
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

Post by Dominic »

I think you are fortunate if for 15 years you haven't had to deal with a dishonest customer who knows how to work the system.

In the case of Ryan Air, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, for all the reasons you specify, and more. But I won't shed a tear for anybody who does deal with them and gets burnt. It isn't as if their reputation is unknown. And more Ryan Air customers mean less customers for the decent airlines.

I have similar feelings about interest-only mortgages and the like!
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

Post by ast »

It always raises a smile when I hear people wittering on about Ryanair as its usually the same ones who say I will never fly with them again then go and book another ticket.

As you say Dominic there reputation is famous. Of course it doesn't give them the right to treat people the way they do but they still do.

Personally I have used them several times and everything has been fine, not my first choice airline but sometimes its just convenience.

Simple really one of the most successful and modern airlines in Europe, there leader is arrogant and disliked by most people, most of the time they offer cheaper fares then others but not always, the choice is yours. 8-)
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Re: Ryanair, you couldn't make this stuff up!

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I used them once in the mid 90s for an overnight business trip with my customer service manager and my colleague. We flew from LBA to DUB in order to meet with the financial office of a satellite operator.
The cups of coffee we had on the outbound flight cost more per person than our flight seats.

I've never used them since but that's because some of the places we wanted to go to, Ryanair often use more remote airports rather than the main ones used by regular carriers.

Then, during our time in Cyprus we found easyJet via Liverpool was much better for us from LCA as the times were better over the winter months.

Since returning to UK, I toyed with trying them in the first couple of years but the Ryanair website drove me demented plus getting tickets printed whilst overseas was another problem as you couldn't print at the time of booking for the return flight. If you didn't print yourself they stuck a ridiculous price for the service on at the airport.

I haven't looked since then as we've booked more tour operator packages since late 2019, other than our own combination of separate flights and various accommodations when we did Morocco in the March of the same year.

Oddly enough, it seems packages booked from UK are now generally cheaper than the DIY holidays I booked for us and our friends when we lived in Cyprus.

Once Covid has settled, we do plan to be booking just flights and accommodation as we have another destination we need to get our heads around for our future plans. Package holidays won't work for us to do that, so - who knows who we will use then.

It all depends on who flies to and from where at the various times of year we need to be going outside of UK.
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