The Backstop

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tonee
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The Backstop

Post by tonee »

The Irish Backstop will keep the UK in a customs union and the single market with the EU until A SOLUTION IS FOUND.So,if a solution has not been found(or attempting to be found)since the referendum,my reading of this is if the backstop was agreed to, the EU has no intention of finding a solution.
They have had three years to find a solution
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Jimgward
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Jimgward »

You are wrong. The UK proposed the Backstop and said they would find the solution - to allow us to keep an open border
tonee
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Re: The Backstop

Post by tonee »

Am having trouble finding info on this,can you substantiate your comment please?
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Jimgward
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Jimgward »

The backstop was a proposal from UK and agreed as the only way to keep an open border, while a transition was taking place.
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kingfisher
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Re: The Backstop

Post by kingfisher »

The Backstop, which had scant mention before the referendum, was cooked up by Barnier with a complicit [remainer] May, and by [remainer] Oily Robbins of the “neutral” Civil Service.
May, head of the world’s fifth largest economy, was summoned out of bed on a December morning at five o clock by an unelected foreign civil servant, Barnier, to sign on the dotted line. The worst “deal” in history, actually an unratified EU treaty, and given a bill for £39,000,000,000. Rejected by a largely remainer parliament three times.

From Wikipedia:
"Backstop proposal.
The Irish backstop is a protocol in the (unratified) Brexit withdrawal agreement, that would keep the United Kingdom (in general) in the European Union Customs Union and Northern Ireland (in particular) in some aspects of the European Single Market, until a solution is found to prevent a hard border. This is so as not to compromise the Good Friday Agreement.[44] This would come into operation only if there were no other solutions by the end of the (agreed) transition period.
The Irish government supports the proposal.[45] It has been strongly opposed by the Democratic Unionist Party as weakening Northern Ireland's place within the United Kingdom and is regarded as the main reason why a Withdrawal Agreement has not been approved by the British Parliament.[46] The British government had rejected the original proposed text. "
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kingfisher
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Re: The Backstop

Post by kingfisher »

Well done Bean, you’ve obviously been paying attention, and spotted the deliberate “mistake”.
For the “Backstop”, read “Northern Ireland Border”.

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Dominic
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Dominic »

The backstop is only an issue if a solution to avoiding the backstop cannot be found. If people can come up with a solution for the NI / Eire border there will be no need for any backstop.

It's all bollocks really. No other word for it. It's an attempt to stop shit hitting the fan. But It basically states that to stop shit hitting the fan, you throw more shit at it. That's not how you stop shit hitting the fan. You stop shit hitting the fan by not throwing shit at the fan. And you do that by coming up with a solution to the problem of the border.

Both parties should concentrate their efforts on solving that, without worrying about what happens if they can't. Because if they can't solve it, the shit will hit the fan anyway.
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Jimgward
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Jimgward »

Boris says there’s an easy technology solution - one not yet invented!
wilky
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Re: The Backstop

Post by wilky »

Never mind goods and services what about people walking,driving,train or boat between Eire (EU) and Northern Ireland on 1/11/2019 when free movement stops between EU and Great Britain.
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Earlsfield »

You know, were any of you actually there before the good friday agreements and witnessed the border controls across the border? Which primarily, as they are now, because guess what they still exist, was to ensure that terrorists were were prevented from operating across the divide. It was Nothing to do with trade, or free passage of the population, it was to do with intercepting weapons. And yes it is project fear. And the EU have jumped on a bandwagon which will be exploited by terror groups on both sides. Strip away the fear, this can be sorted and I am afraid it is being used by the EU, who know little about the troubles to prevent what could and hopefully will be a deal between the UK and the EU.
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Dominic
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Dominic »

There is an alternative to hard border controls. Just don't implement them.

What happens if you don't implement hard border controls?

You get a bit of smuggling.

Surely that is the lesser of many evils?
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Devil
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Devil »

Or cancel Brexit altogether! :) :)
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Earlsfield »

Happy in Cyprus wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:02 am Sorry Earlsfield, in this instance we're not talking about the troubles, which I understand you have a long familiarity of, and association with. We're not talking about dissident groups here, or the former troubles.

wilky asked a simple question as to what would happen to ordinary people going about their daily business and wishing to traverse from NI to Ireland...and vice-versa. My response was accurate and correct. Whilst now they may have to undertake the most cursory of checks - just as some of us do when we cross a border from one EU country to another (Schengen-dependant) - in future there will be Customs and Immigration checks in addition. Duties and Taxes may be payable on goods traversing either way across the border.

This is in the event of a No Deal, ultimately brought about by the Brexit vote.
I do realise that, but the rhetoric always turns to that and the impact a hard border will have in the relationship between the two countries and the resurgence of terror groups. It is the spectre of terrorism that is the underlying threat which I am afraid the EU are relying on here. And no you are incorrect in your assumption that only cursory checks are carried out, there are still full blown security checks at crossing points, Armed police are deployed and vehicle check points set up, they have never gone away.
Earlsfield
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Earlsfield »

Dominic wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:21 am There is an alternative to hard border controls. Just don't implement them.

What happens if you don't implement hard border controls?

You get a bit of smuggling.

Surely that is the lesser of many evils?
What a genius idea 😉
wilky
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Re: The Backstop

Post by wilky »

The only answer is to put the border down the Irish sea but would that get through the commons with the 10 DUP MPs against it along with Conservative and Unionist MPs saying that would brake up Great Britain.
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Dominic »

"Every commercial enterprise worth its salt"

So every business would act illegally if they thought they could get away with it? Is that really what you think?

If UK businesses start using supplies that appeared from nowhere, do you think the IR won't notice?
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Jimgward
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Jimgward »

NI voted to Remain, the DUP MPs don’t back their populace’s wishes. I’d imagine the majority in NI would welcome remaining in the customs union with an Irish Sea border - would make sense. The Unionist fears of NI joining with the Republic fails to take into account that 50% of NI is working in the public sector - jobs that would disappear and no way would Dublin want to support that amount. It would bankrupt them.
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Dominic »

Google et al take great pains to ensure they are legal though.
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Earlsfield
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Earlsfield »

Jimgward wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:45 pm NI voted to Remain, the DUP MPs don’t back their populace’s wishes. I’d imagine the majority in NI would welcome remaining in the customs union with an Irish Sea border - would make sense. The Unionist fears of NI joining with the Republic fails to take into account that 50% of NI is working in the public sector - jobs that would disappear and no way would Dublin want to support that amount. It would bankrupt them.
Ah you see Jim, you don’t get it do you. Yes the majority of those residing in the province voted to remain in the EU, individual votes, a bit like Londonium voted to remain...now ask the question about imposing a “border” in the Irish Sea and you would get a different result. The province, under the Good Friday Agreement, can leave the UK anytime it wants..if the majority vote for it, probably a few years off yet.
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Jimgward
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Jimgward »

Well Earl, I do get it.... and as a Provence, it has a duty, more than London, to represent its populace.
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