The Backstop

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tonee
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The Backstop

Post by tonee » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:45 pm

The Irish Backstop will keep the UK in a customs union and the single market with the EU until A SOLUTION IS FOUND.So,if a solution has not been found(or attempting to be found)since the referendum,my reading of this is if the backstop was agreed to, the EU has no intention of finding a solution.
They have had three years to find a solution

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Jimgward
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Jimgward » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:00 pm

You are wrong. The UK proposed the Backstop and said they would find the solution - to allow us to keep an open border

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Re: The Backstop

Post by tonee » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:19 pm

Am having trouble finding info on this,can you substantiate your comment please?

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Jimgward
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Jimgward » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:29 pm

The backstop was a proposal from UK and agreed as the only way to keep an open border, while a transition was taking place.

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Re: The Backstop

Post by kingfisher » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:12 pm

The Backstop, which had scant mention before the referendum, was cooked up by Barnier with a complicit [remainer] May, and by [remainer] Oily Robbins of the “neutral” Civil Service.
May, head of the world’s fifth largest economy, was summoned out of bed on a December morning at five o clock by an unelected foreign civil servant, Barnier, to sign on the dotted line. The worst “deal” in history, actually an unratified EU treaty, and given a bill for £39,000,000,000. Rejected by a largely remainer parliament three times.

From Wikipedia:
"Backstop proposal.
The Irish backstop is a protocol in the (unratified) Brexit withdrawal agreement, that would keep the United Kingdom (in general) in the European Union Customs Union and Northern Ireland (in particular) in some aspects of the European Single Market, until a solution is found to prevent a hard border. This is so as not to compromise the Good Friday Agreement.[44] This would come into operation only if there were no other solutions by the end of the (agreed) transition period.
The Irish government supports the proposal.[45] It has been strongly opposed by the Democratic Unionist Party as weakening Northern Ireland's place within the United Kingdom and is regarded as the main reason why a Withdrawal Agreement has not been approved by the British Parliament.[46] The British government had rejected the original proposed text. "
Jon.

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Re: The Backstop

Post by Les Bean » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:19 pm

Could it have been mentioned before the referendum when it wasn't in existence?

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kingfisher
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Re: The Backstop

Post by kingfisher » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:35 pm

Well done Bean, you’ve obviously been paying attention, and spotted the deliberate “mistake”.
For the “Backstop”, read “Northern Ireland Border”.

Jon.

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Dominic
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Dominic » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:52 pm

The backstop is only an issue if a solution to avoiding the backstop cannot be found. If people can come up with a solution for the NI / Eire border there will be no need for any backstop.

It's all bollocks really. No other word for it. It's an attempt to stop shit hitting the fan. But It basically states that to stop shit hitting the fan, you throw more shit at it. That's not how you stop shit hitting the fan. You stop shit hitting the fan by not throwing shit at the fan. And you do that by coming up with a solution to the problem of the border.

Both parties should concentrate their efforts on solving that, without worrying about what happens if they can't. Because if they can't solve it, the shit will hit the fan anyway.
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Jimgward » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:19 pm

Boris says there’s an easy technology solution - one not yet invented!

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Re: The Backstop

Post by Les Bean » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:48 am

kingfisher wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:35 pm
Well done Bean, you’ve obviously been paying attention, and spotted the deliberate “mistake”.
For the “Backstop”, read “Northern Ireland Border”.

Jon.
👍😁

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Happy in Cyprus
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:35 am

Jimgward wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:19 pm
Boris says there’s an easy technology solution - one not yet invented!

On ITV's News at Ten last night, the NI Chief of Police said exactly the same thing. He claimed there are so many back roads from Eire to N. Ireland and there was absolutely no way that roads could be policed for illegal and untaxed imports.

He was also fearful that if farmers and business owners in Northern Ireland suffer in the event of a No Deal, civil unrest will surely follow, and not far behind that, terrorist groups would once more regroup.

He should know, he is a Chief Constable. What does Boris know other than bluff and bluster and putting his legs up on Macon's table :shock:

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Re: The Backstop

Post by wilky » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:15 pm

Never mind goods and services what about people walking,driving,train or boat between Eire (EU) and Northern Ireland on 1/11/2019 when free movement stops between EU and Great Britain.

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Re: The Backstop

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:56 am

That's the thing wilky; you're quite right. If there is a No Deal there will have to be a border between Eire and Northern Ireland. Simple reason is, Ireland will be part of the EU, N. Ireland - part of the UK - will not. Hence two different tax and regulatory regimes. Therefore there must be Customs posts on all main routes between the two 'countries'. But you will still end up with a porous border, with smugglers, people smugglers and criminal gangs easily able to get contraband over the line via. the back roads.

Because Ireland and NI will not be on equal terms, theoretically Customs checks will be required for all persons passing across the border, with all the faffing about that that entails.

Will it be worth it? Better ask Brexiteers, as it is they who voted for this shenanigans; though like most of the consequential effects of Brexit, they didn't see it coming or realise it at the time. In the aftermath of the Brexit vote any warnings as to what might happen were dismissed as Project Fear. Now we're into Project Reality.

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Re: The Backstop

Post by Earlsfield » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:24 am

You know, were any of you actually there before the good friday agreements and witnessed the border controls across the border? Which primarily, as they are now, because guess what they still exist, was to ensure that terrorists were were prevented from operating across the divide. It was Nothing to do with trade, or free passage of the population, it was to do with intercepting weapons. And yes it is project fear. And the EU have jumped on a bandwagon which will be exploited by terror groups on both sides. Strip away the fear, this can be sorted and I am afraid it is being used by the EU, who know little about the troubles to prevent what could and hopefully will be a deal between the UK and the EU.

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Re: The Backstop

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:02 am

Sorry Earlsfield, in this instance we're not talking about the troubles, which I understand you have a long familiarity of, and association with. We're not talking about dissident groups here, or the former troubles.

wilky asked a simple question as to what would happen to ordinary people going about their daily business and wishing to traverse from NI to Ireland...and vice-versa. My response was accurate and correct. Whilst now they may have to undertake the most cursory of checks - just as some of us do when we cross a border from one EU country to another (Schengen-dependant) - in future there will be Customs and Immigration checks in addition. Duties and Taxes may be payable on goods traversing either way across the border.

This is in the event of a No Deal, ultimately brought about by the Brexit vote.

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Dominic
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Dominic » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:21 am

There is an alternative to hard border controls. Just don't implement them.

What happens if you don't implement hard border controls?

You get a bit of smuggling.

Surely that is the lesser of many evils?
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Re: The Backstop

Post by Devil » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:14 am

Or cancel Brexit altogether! :) :)

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Re: The Backstop

Post by Earlsfield » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:24 am

Happy in Cyprus wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:02 am
Sorry Earlsfield, in this instance we're not talking about the troubles, which I understand you have a long familiarity of, and association with. We're not talking about dissident groups here, or the former troubles.

wilky asked a simple question as to what would happen to ordinary people going about their daily business and wishing to traverse from NI to Ireland...and vice-versa. My response was accurate and correct. Whilst now they may have to undertake the most cursory of checks - just as some of us do when we cross a border from one EU country to another (Schengen-dependant) - in future there will be Customs and Immigration checks in addition. Duties and Taxes may be payable on goods traversing either way across the border.

This is in the event of a No Deal, ultimately brought about by the Brexit vote.
I do realise that, but the rhetoric always turns to that and the impact a hard border will have in the relationship between the two countries and the resurgence of terror groups. It is the spectre of terrorism that is the underlying threat which I am afraid the EU are relying on here. And no you are incorrect in your assumption that only cursory checks are carried out, there are still full blown security checks at crossing points, Armed police are deployed and vehicle check points set up, they have never gone away.

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Re: The Backstop

Post by Earlsfield » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:25 am

Dominic wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:21 am
There is an alternative to hard border controls. Just don't implement them.

What happens if you don't implement hard border controls?

You get a bit of smuggling.

Surely that is the lesser of many evils?
What a genius idea 😉

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Re: The Backstop

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:41 am

Dominic wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:21 am
You get a bit of smuggling.

Trouble is Dominic, nothing ever stops at "a bit of". Every commercial enterprise worth it's salt would use the NI/Eire open gateway as the opportunity to get goods in and out of Europe without payment of dues and paperwork. That's to say nothing of people with criminal intent. Bit like drug taking, you start off with "a bit of" cannabis and end up taking crack. Company fraudsters start off stealing a thousand, and then when they see how easy it is, steal millions.

If the UK leaves the EU with No Deal then I fail to see how a border, and all the checks which go with it, can be avoided.

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