So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

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Jimgym
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym »

Les Bean wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:14 pm There has still to be any reaction by the Brexiteers to the article pointing out the increasing reduction in the British automotive industry and the fact that 95 companies have already left for Holland, with 325 more planning the same
Are they supposed to comment on each and every piece of news regarding Brexit? Do you?
Jimgym
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym »

Les Bean wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:00 pm Not at all, but an article was posted with relevant information and hic asked for reaction and comment from Brexiteers.
I can’t speak for others but I don’t always comment on every article, despite entreaties from other members. I did ask you to comment on one of your posts regarding the identity of someone whose tweet you posted. You never replied, it wasn’t a big deal. Happens to us all 😎
The Aquila
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by The Aquila »

Happy in Cyprus wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:20 am Let's print the important parts of that in red, so that even Brexiteers get the gist of what is being said:

Ford is shutting down parts of its engine production and wants to "rethink" its future in the UK as well. PSA boss Carlos Tavares has threatened the withdrawal of Opel Astra production from the Vauxhall plant in Ellesmere Port and its relocation to Southern Europe in the event of a hard Brexit; this would be the end for the location - and for many suppliers all around. Major suppliers such as ZF, Schäffler and Michelin are already closing, others will follow.

The end of the British automotive industry, more precisely: the automotive industry in Great Britain, is approaching with great strides. A "hard" Brexit without a free trade agreement with the EU is destroying the automotive location Great Britain. It becomes unprofitable, because the car industry is heavily dependent on exports. Every year, around 80 percent of cars are exported, more than 60 percent of them to Europe. Conversely, 80 percent of all supplier parts are imported from Europe, some of which cross the channel up to five times in finishing traffic. The introduction of WTO customs tariffs of ten percent would deprive Great Britain of its basis for profitability: Export cars would become about 3000 euros more expensive, and supplier parts would have to be imported at higher costs.


So Brexiteers, how do you respond to that? Not what you were telling us just a year or two ago, is it?
Lloyd, about 10 years ago Ford decided to close the Transit Factory in the UK and move the production to Turkey (just after they spent millions on a production line upgrade)....they did this with a grant from the EU!

So was that down to an anticipated Brexit or just an opportunity to produce their products slightly cheaper?
Swerve
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Swerve »

Why would any Brexiteers respond to such an insulting post implying that we require red ink to fully understand the post. As I posted the other day when you resort to insults you lose the argument.
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym »

Happy in Cyprus wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:49 am But we're not just talking about Ford here though, are we Aquila? The same penal constraints will apply to ALL automotive manufacturers, not just Ford. All Tier 1 manufacturers buy in goods on a JIT (just-in-time) basis. How will that work if there are 2-3 day delays at ports? And who do you suppose will fund the cost of delays, import duties and tariffs (both ways, on import of parts and export of finished car)?

If you were a car manufacturer would you just sit tight and chant the Brexiteer mantra "It'll all be worth it in the end, long rule Britannia"...or would you up-sticks and move to another EU country where you can once more trade with 27 member states on a free movement, free tariff basis? I know what I would do. And from the article it's clear automotive manufacturers know what they will do too.

Les Bean, Brexiteers never address material issues, because at this stage in the Brexit cycle they are able to live in their own cosy, cushioned, cloud-cuckoo land, completely divorced from the tough realities which Brexit will bring about. Most have never run a company, so haven't the first inkling as to how international trade works. They are above all dreamers, who aspire to return to the good old days of the British Empire, Raj, Queen and country. They have the brains of fossils and need to be guided by charismatic, macho leaders (terms used advisedly) like Bojo and Farage, because they are incapable of using reason, sound judgement and thinking for themselves.

It seems Swerve hero-worships Bojo and doesn't like to countenance criticism of him, but it is clear Jeremy Paxman has sussed out dodgy Boris too: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/jeremy-paxman ... 00993.html

Swerve wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:14 pmWhy would any Brexiteers respond to such an insulting post implying that we require red ink to fully understand the post.

In a nutshell, and I hope you won't be offended when I say this Swerve, but possibly because Brexiteers come across as not exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. You know, the kind of people who would ignore a "Do not Cross" warning at a busy road junction ;)
Yet they still manage to come across as far more intelligent than you Lloyd, a fact you continue to highlight in each of your posts. :lol:
jeba
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by jeba »

Jimgym wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:39 pm
jeba wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:36 pm
Jimgym wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:19 am The will of the majority who voted was to leave the EU. They answered the question asked.
Which means they never voted to leave the common market / customs union.
Not exactly, they voted on the question that was presented to them. The voters did not offer an opinion, nor cast a vote on any other question but there was enough publicity to advise people what they were voting for.
What do you mean when you say they voted on the question that was presented to them (which wasn´t about leaving the common market nor the customs union) but claim that the was enough publicity to advise people what they were voting for? Are you trying to say this is enough of a basis to claim that people voted for leaving the customs union and common market?

I still remember that when I heard about the result of the referendum my first thought was it didn´t really matter as surely the UK would stay within those and the vote was just to be explained by the fact that people were fed up with funding the EU´s gravy train..
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jim B »

Jimgym wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:36 pm
Les Bean wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:14 pm There has still to be any reaction by the Brexiteers to the article pointing out the increasing reduction in the British automotive industry and the fact that 95 companies have already left for Holland, with 325 more planning the same
Are they supposed to comment on each and every piece of news regarding Brexit? Do you?
But Alan, every time we Remainers make a statement the first line in their response from most Leavers is a request for proof. There are some outlandish claims by your fellow Leavers and when information is provided to prove the comments are either wrong or misleading there is a deafening silence until they come up with another gem.
It's like playing Whackamole.

Jim
Jimgym
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym »

jeba wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:35 am
Jimgym wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:39 pm
jeba wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:36 pm
Which means they never voted to leave the common market / customs union.
Not exactly, they voted on the question that was presented to them. The voters did not offer an opinion, nor cast a vote on any other question but there was enough publicity to advise people what they were voting for.
What do you mean when you say they voted on the question that was presented to them (which wasn´t about leaving the common market nor the customs union) but claim that the was enough publicity to advise people what they were voting for? Are you trying to say this is enough of a basis to claim that people voted for leaving the customs union and common market?

I still remember that when I heard about the result of the referendum my first thought was it didn´t really matter as surely the UK would stay within those and the vote was just to be explained by the fact that people were fed up with funding the EU´s gravy train..
I mean they voted to stay or leave the EU, which was the question on the ballot paper. My claim that there was enough publicity is evidenced here in an interview with the then PM David Cameron, before the vote in which he states quite categorically that "he will pull Britain out of the single market if there is a vote to leave the European Union at the upcoming referendum.
The prime minister told the BBC’s Andrew Marr show that it would be impossible to copy the Norwegian model by remaining inside the trading bloc despite being outside the EU because that would mean accepting freedom of movement and trade rules made in Brussels. The prime minister said: “What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market. He said the Brexit campaign had made it clear to voters that voting to leave also meant pulling out of the single market." https://www.politico.eu/article/david-c ... nces-news/
The Aquila
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by The Aquila »

Happy in Cyprus wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:49 am But we're not just talking about Ford here though, are we Aquila?
Brexit is just the excuse and you know it.

As I said, around 10 years your precious EU made the decision to shaft of over 3000 staff producing the Transit van in the UK by funding a move to an Asian country, there were also other knock on effects for subcontractors too....do you think that is right? Do you not understand why the people in that Area voted for brexit?
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym »

Les Bean wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:52 am
Swerve wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:14 pm Why would any Brexiteers respond to such an insulting post implying that we require red ink to fully understand the post. As I posted the other day when you resort to insults you lose the argument.
The like was an error. Red ink is used to highlight the most important or relevant parts, f all to do with understanding
Les, May I suggest you read Lloyd’s last post on this thread which is so full of insults and generally offensive that you shouldn’t be surprised that his posts are not always responded to. He appears to feel that by being offensive to Leave voters that it makes him appear in some way more intelligent when in fact it has the opposite effect. A man to be pitied more than anything.
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym »

Jim B wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:01 am
Jimgym wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:36 pm
Les Bean wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:14 pm There has still to be any reaction by the Brexiteers to the article pointing out the increasing reduction in the British automotive industry and the fact that 95 companies have already left for Holland, with 325 more planning the same
Are they supposed to comment on each and every piece of news regarding Brexit? Do you?
But Alan, every time we Remainers make a statement the first line in their response from most Leavers is a request for proof. There are some outlandish claims by your fellow Leavers and when information is provided to prove the comments are either wrong or misleading there is a deafening silence until they come up with another gem.
It's like playing Whackamole.

Jim
Jim I enjoy reading your comments as they are generally well thought out. However some of your fellow remain voters leave a lot to be desired in their posts and outlandish claims and lies. There’s nothing wrong with asking someone to back up their claims with proof, it makes for an interesting discussion!
Swerve
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Swerve »

Don't worry Les Bean, despite me being a thick Brexiteer I sort of realised that your like was a mistake!!! ;)
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Firefly »

Yet again we have insults being directed at Brexiteers by Lloyd.

I would have thought that you are old enough and intelligent enough to put your points across, without lowering yourself to name calling Lloyd, obviously I am wrong.

This is playground behaviour, it's time you grew up.....if it's possible.

Jackie
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Jim B
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jim B »

Jimgym wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:46 am
Jim B wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:01 am
Jimgym wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:36 pm

Are they supposed to comment on each and every piece of news regarding Brexit? Do you?
But Alan, every time we Remainers make a statement the first line in their response from most Leavers is a request for proof. There are some outlandish claims by your fellow Leavers and when information is provided to prove the comments are either wrong or misleading there is a deafening silence until they come up with another gem.
It's like playing Whackamole.

Jim
Jim I enjoy reading your comments as they are generally well thought out. However some of your fellow remain voters leave a lot to be desired in their posts and outlandish claims and lies. There’s nothing wrong with asking someone to back up their claims with proof, it makes for an interesting discussion!
Hi Alan
I try my best to be objective though even my halo slips now and again.

I haven't managed to find the article from the FT but did find the same report covered in the Independent though the report isn't as full or as in depth. I hope you will find I gave a reasonably balanced synopsis.

Jim


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 81331.html
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym »

Jim B wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:38 pm
Jimgym wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:46 am
Jim B wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:01 am

But Alan, every time we Remainers make a statement the first line in their response from most Leavers is a request for proof. There are some outlandish claims by your fellow Leavers and when information is provided to prove the comments are either wrong or misleading there is a deafening silence until they come up with another gem.
It's like playing Whackamole.

Jim
Jim I enjoy reading your comments as they are generally well thought out. However some of your fellow remain voters leave a lot to be desired in their posts and outlandish claims and lies. There’s nothing wrong with asking someone to back up their claims with proof, it makes for an interesting discussion!
Hi Alan
I try my best to be objective though even my halo slips now and again.

I haven't managed to find the article from the FT but did find the same report covered in the Independent though the report isn't as full or as in depth. I hope you will find I gave a reasonably balanced synopsis.

Jim


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 81331.html
Mine slips frequently, I'm used to it now! Thanks for the link Jim.
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Firefly »

Lloyd

You're wrong again, read and comprehend.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym »

Firefly wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:54 pm Lloyd

You're wrong again, read and comprehend.
He can’t comprehend Jackie that’s the problem 🤣
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym »

Les Bean wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:34 pm Come on guys, the subject is worthy of objective debate, trading personal insults is not the way to go
I agree Les, sadly the usual suspect decided to throw insults around and cheapen the whole discussion.
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgward »

Jimgym wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:46 am
Jim B wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:01 am
Jimgym wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:36 pm

Are they supposed to comment on each and every piece of news regarding Brexit? Do you?
But Alan, every time we Remainers make a statement the first line in their response from most Leavers is a request for proof. There are some outlandish claims by your fellow Leavers and when information is provided to prove the comments are either wrong or misleading there is a deafening silence until they come up with another gem.
It's like playing Whackamole.

Jim
Jim I enjoy reading your comments as they are generally well thought out. However some of your fellow remain voters leave a lot to be desired in their posts and outlandish claims and lies. There’s nothing wrong with asking someone to back up their claims with proof, it makes for an interesting discussion!
I haven’t seen any lies given on here by any of the vociferous remain promoters.
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Re: So...will the Remainers predictions come true?

Post by Jimgym »

Jimgward wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:25 pm
Jimgym wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:46 am
Jim B wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:01 am

But Alan, every time we Remainers make a statement the first line in their response from most Leavers is a request for proof. There are some outlandish claims by your fellow Leavers and when information is provided to prove the comments are either wrong or misleading there is a deafening silence until they come up with another gem.
It's like playing Whackamole.

Jim
Jim I enjoy reading your comments as they are generally well thought out. However some of your fellow remain voters leave a lot to be desired in their posts and outlandish claims and lies. There’s nothing wrong with asking someone to back up their claims with proof, it makes for an interesting discussion!
I haven’t seen any lies given on here by any of the vociferous remain promoters.
Of course you haven’t jimgward, sadly but unsurprisingly.
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