The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

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Devil
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Devil »

Meeeh! Speculation again.
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kingfisher
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by kingfisher »

While we’re on the topic of farming: From the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... griculture

“The one good thing about Brexit? Leaving the EU’s disgraceful farming system
George Monbiot
Wed 10 Oct 2018
I’m a remainer, but there’s one result of Brexit I can’t wait to see: leaving the EU’s common agricultural policy. This is the farm subsidy system that spends €50bn (£44bn) a year on achieving none of its objectives. It is among the most powerful drivers of environmental destruction in the northern hemisphere. Because payments are made only for land that’s in “agricultural condition”, the system creates a perverse incentive to clear wildlife habitats, even in places unsuitable for farming, to produce the empty ground that qualifies for public money. These payments have led to the destruction of hundreds of thousands of hectares of magnificent wild places across Europe.
It is also arguably the most regressive transfer of public money in the modern world. Farmers are paid by the hectare for owning or using land; so the more you have, the more you get. While in the UK benefits for poor people are capped at £20,000 (outside London), these benefits for the rich are uncapped. Some landowners receive £1m or more. You don’t even have to live in the EU to take this money: you just have to own land here. Among the benefit tourists sucking up public funds in the age of austerity are Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Texas oil barons…..” [More]
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Jim B »

Well, we'll really change that from the outside looking in.
The Russian Oligarchs, the Texas Oil Barons and the Saudi Princes will continue doing it while we tut tut from the sideline doing nothing.🤔
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Firefly »

Very strange, Herefordshire overwhelmingly voted for Brexit, it's main industry is farming, I for one do not consider farmers to be naïve or stupid. I therefore take this article as just another project fear poke at Brexit.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Jimgward »

If anyone had listened to FiveLive this morning, from Dover, discussing no-deal and implications, it wasn't pleasant listening. Already, businesses who receive imports from the EU and businesses exporting, are receiving paperwork that needs to be completed and many were saying they couldn't deal with it and would likely just shut down. Many said they would need to open offices in the EU to enable compliance with EU regulations if they wanted to export. Tariffs would make everything more expensive.

So, as we have asked on here for years ... what are the benefits of leaving the EU in this manner, never mind the benefits at all? I've only ever heard the usual;

'Control of our borders' - yet we cannot deal with the Irish one ...
'Control of Immigration' - yet we always had control ...
'Sovereignty' - which we always had - that's why parliament cannot decide...
'Too many EU rules' - which has been dispelled ...

Now, yet again, I will reiterate, nobody thinks the EU is without fault. In fact, it needs to change and evolve like any. However, outside, we cannot change anything. We will be a small country, on the fringes of Europe, with difficulty in doing trade. Our GDP will take a massive hit and we could take decades to recover (Copyright Rees-Mogg). Every ordinary citizen will be worse off. The rich will be better off - not subject to the new EU anti-criminal laws affecting money, coming in 2020.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Firefly »

Jim

As I see it,we can control the Irish one, it's just that the EU insist that they make the rules, not us. This is one of the reasons that we may have a no deal Brexit.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

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The only thing I am mildly apprehensive about is the nature and extent of deliberate sabotage of the systems and proceedures by certain disgruntled, uncooperative Remainers, should we simply leave- the choice of action stated clearly on the ballot- which was conclusively won by the Leave side.
Judging by the hysteria, propaganda, and deliberate misinformation propagated through the largely remain media, and the bile and open contempt shown for the 17.4 million citizens of the UK for putting a cross on a legal ballot, one might reasonably expect problems to arise caused by a small but very vociferous group of bad losers who have a vested financial interest in thwarting Brexit, or making a possibly difficult task considerably more so.
Jon.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by kingfisher »

What about obstructing the access to ports by sitting down in the road? Like Plaid Cymru did in order to obstruct the legitimate access to the Brexit Party’s rally in South Wales.
However, I don’t think it is a good idea to offer suggestions. Remainers have energy, and vivid imaginations enough!
Just a pity that much of it could usefully be channeled into making a success of Brexit…
Jon.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Firefly »

Jon

Well said
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

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Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Jim B »

kingfisher wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:14 pm The only thing I am mildly apprehensive about is the nature and extent of deliberate sabotage of the systems and proceedures by certain disgruntled, uncooperative Remainers, should we simply leave- the choice of action stated clearly on the ballot- which was conclusively won by the Leave side.
Judging by the hysteria, propaganda, and deliberate misinformation propagated through the largely remain media, and the bile and open contempt shown for the 17.4 million citizens of the UK for putting a cross on a legal ballot, one might reasonably expect problems to arise caused by a small but very vociferous group of bad losers who have a vested financial interest in thwarting Brexit, or making a possibly difficult task considerably more so.
Jon.
Hello Jon
As a point of order before continuing, the referendum had No legal status though you continue to mislead by stating this which is contrary to what the Supreme Court declared in its judgement.
I can't say I've read or heard from any of the media (Brexit favouring or otherwise) about a Brexit Party rally being obstructed though did read about Remain supporters being attacked by EDL supporters.
As for blocking the roads by Remain supporters, there'll be that much gridlock with truck drivers trying to clear customs the protesters won't be able to get anywhere near the ports for traffic jams.
Reads like your becoming paranoid or are you just setting the stage for when everything turns to chaos you can blame Remainers.

Jim
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Firefly »

Because there is no answer, it's all conjecture as usual, trying to panic gullible remainers, it appears that they have succeeded. This may happen, that might happen, no answer to that.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Jim B »

Firefly wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:54 pm Because there is no answer, it's all conjecture as usual, trying to panic gullible remainers, it appears that they have succeeded. This may happen, that might happen, no answer to that.
Jackie
I often wonder when your conjecture actually becomes fact. Is the fall of the Pound by around 19 cents directly attributed to Brexit, is it fact or conjecture? How about the loss of nearly a quarter of a million jobs since the referendum again directly arlttributed to Brexit.
How about the shortage of certain drugs, the papers are full of people claiming they can't get medicines for their families.
Ive attached a few links but of course this is project fear as far as you're concerned even though it is happening and we have even left yet.

Jim

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 92296.html

https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/brexit-index/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-47646193
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Firefly »

Jim

When we lived in Cyprus, quite a few years ago, I well remember the Euro having parity with Sterling, if that happened now, remainers would be screaming BREXIT. Currencies fluctuate they always will, and no shortage of medication here.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Jimgym »

Les Bean wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:30 am
Les Bean wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:10 pm
kingfisher wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:39 am While we’re on the topic of farming: From the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... griculture

“The one good thing about Brexit? Leaving the EU’s disgraceful farming system
George Monbiot
Wed 10 Oct 2018
I’m a remainer, but there’s one result of Brexit I can’t wait to see: leaving the EU’s common agricultural policy. This is the farm subsidy system that spends €50bn (£44bn) a year on achieving none of its objectives. It is among the most powerful drivers of environmental destruction in the northern hemisphere. Because payments are made only for land that’s in “agricultural condition”, the system creates a perverse incentive to clear wildlife habitats, even in places unsuitable for farming, to produce the empty ground that qualifies for public money. These payments have led to the destruction of hundreds of thousands of hectares of magnificent wild places across Europe.
It is also arguably the most regressive transfer of public money in the modern world. Farmers are paid by the hectare for owning or using land; so the more you have, the more you get. While in the UK benefits for poor people are capped at £20,000 (outside London), these benefits for the rich are uncapped. Some landowners receive £1m or more. You don’t even have to live in the EU to take this money: you just have to own land here. Among the benefit tourists sucking up public funds in the age of austerity are Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Texas oil barons…..” [More]
Who is he?
I'm still wondering who this is. Perhaps Kingfisher who posted it could enlighten me?
I was wondering the same about the man whose tweet you posted. Still awaiting your response.....
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

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Firefly wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:07 am Jim

When we lived in Cyprus, quite a few years ago, I well remember the Euro having parity with Sterling, if that happened now, remainers would be screaming BREXIT. Currencies fluctuate they always will, and no shortage of medication here.
Sorry but anybody who thinks that the current exchange rates are down to anything but Brexit is in complete denial, is kidding themselves, and is trying to kid other people.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Jim B »

Firefly wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:07 am Jim

When we lived in Cyprus, quite a few years ago, I well remember the Euro having parity with Sterling, if that happened now, remainers would be screaming BREXIT. Currencies fluctuate they always will, and no shortage of medication here.
The pound has never actually reached parity with the Euro (see link) on the Interbank rate though even here some of the ATMs are giving less than a Euro to the Pound. The period you mentioned was in December 2008 during the bank crash which was caused by the greed of financiers of which Sajid Javid was a key player.

You are correct, both falls of the Pound in 2008 and 2016 can be directly attributed to certain greedy Tory financiers.
Maybe presently there's no shortage of medicines for you or your family but there's many who disagree with you. You can't take the attitude that if it isn't happening to you it isn't happening, must be a Brexiters way of thinking.

Jim
http://www.theirishworld.com/pound-ster ... latlining/

Jim
Last edited by Jim B on Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

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What surprises me most, is that most of us understand that the politicians lie, yet some are happy about it. Javid, an ex-banker of the worst kind and new to the job as chancellor, is trying to pull the wool over our eyes over GDP, growth and avoiding recession when he knows and he knows we know and he knows we know he only out to help his ilk.

What Boris is doing, is tantamount to taking us to war. He is endangering so much of the country and people within it, yet doesn't care.

The ordinary people are having the wool pulled over their eyes, but their staunch imperialist and unionist attitudes drive them more than their sensible sides. God help them and all of the rest of us they're driving over the precipice by a mob of lemmings.
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Jim B »

I was reading this morning that the bookies have opened betting on the first items to be rationed; fuel having the shortest odds.

Jim
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Devil »

I thought that Theresa was the UK's worst PM, ever. I was wrong and I'm flabbergasted that I have changed my mind so quickly :(
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