The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Whatever your political persuasion, defend your corner here. All we ask is that you voice YOUR opinion, rather than just post a link to a half hour youtube video. Also, we want you to win your debate by the strength of your argument. Attacking your opponent weakens your argument.
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Happy in Cyprus
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The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:38 am

Just one small example, from an article by Rosamund Irwin and Caroline Wheeler in yesterday's ST. Unfortunately no online link, so I am posting the article.

Can a Brexiteer please explain to me how this madness, caused 100% by Brexit, is good for the country and will help the future prosperity of UK plc?


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Devil
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Devil » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:58 am

Meeeh! Speculation again.

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kingfisher
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by kingfisher » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:39 am

While we’re on the topic of farming: From the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... griculture

“The one good thing about Brexit? Leaving the EU’s disgraceful farming system
George Monbiot
Wed 10 Oct 2018
I’m a remainer, but there’s one result of Brexit I can’t wait to see: leaving the EU’s common agricultural policy. This is the farm subsidy system that spends €50bn (£44bn) a year on achieving none of its objectives. It is among the most powerful drivers of environmental destruction in the northern hemisphere. Because payments are made only for land that’s in “agricultural condition”, the system creates a perverse incentive to clear wildlife habitats, even in places unsuitable for farming, to produce the empty ground that qualifies for public money. These payments have led to the destruction of hundreds of thousands of hectares of magnificent wild places across Europe.
It is also arguably the most regressive transfer of public money in the modern world. Farmers are paid by the hectare for owning or using land; so the more you have, the more you get. While in the UK benefits for poor people are capped at £20,000 (outside London), these benefits for the rich are uncapped. Some landowners receive £1m or more. You don’t even have to live in the EU to take this money: you just have to own land here. Among the benefit tourists sucking up public funds in the age of austerity are Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Texas oil barons…..” [More]

Jim B
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Jim B » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:21 pm

Well, we'll really change that from the outside looking in.
The Russian Oligarchs, the Texas Oil Barons and the Saudi Princes will continue doing it while we tut tut from the sideline doing nothing.🤔

Les Bean
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Les Bean » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:10 pm

kingfisher wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:39 am
While we’re on the topic of farming: From the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... griculture

“The one good thing about Brexit? Leaving the EU’s disgraceful farming system
George Monbiot
Wed 10 Oct 2018
I’m a remainer, but there’s one result of Brexit I can’t wait to see: leaving the EU’s common agricultural policy. This is the farm subsidy system that spends €50bn (£44bn) a year on achieving none of its objectives. It is among the most powerful drivers of environmental destruction in the northern hemisphere. Because payments are made only for land that’s in “agricultural condition”, the system creates a perverse incentive to clear wildlife habitats, even in places unsuitable for farming, to produce the empty ground that qualifies for public money. These payments have led to the destruction of hundreds of thousands of hectares of magnificent wild places across Europe.
It is also arguably the most regressive transfer of public money in the modern world. Farmers are paid by the hectare for owning or using land; so the more you have, the more you get. While in the UK benefits for poor people are capped at £20,000 (outside London), these benefits for the rich are uncapped. Some landowners receive £1m or more. You don’t even have to live in the EU to take this money: you just have to own land here. Among the benefit tourists sucking up public funds in the age of austerity are Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Texas oil barons…..” [More]
Who is he?

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Happy in Cyprus
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:53 am

Devil wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:58 am
Meeeh! Speculation again.

Oh dear Devil, for someone who is normally so precise, you clearly missed these paragraphs in the article:

"It comes as the British Meat Processors Association warned that "a sense of panic is now gripping the meat industry" over the possibility of the UK crashing out of the EU. Buyers on the continent are already refusing to agree long-term supply contracts with UK meat exporters, it said.

European buyers are being put off by fears over tariffs and border delays while insurers covering these consignments are refusing to indemnify against losses related to a no-deal Brexit".

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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Firefly » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:42 pm

Very strange, Herefordshire overwhelmingly voted for Brexit, it's main industry is farming, I for one do not consider farmers to be naïve or stupid. I therefore take this article as just another project fear poke at Brexit.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Happy in Cyprus
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:13 am

I have news for you Jackie...project fear is becoming project reality. Have you looked at the value of Sterling over the past day or two :shock:

I also understood that farmers had, in the main voted for Brexit. If so it seems they, like so many others, voted with their hearts rather than their heads...and didn't think through to the consequences. Alas :?

Let's move on now from farmers to medicine. What do you make of this letter to the same newspaper from the Chief Exec and President of the Institute of Cancer Research? More project fear? Or genuine concerns expressed by someone in the know?

I'm not holding my breath that you'll be in the least influenced by his observations; Brexiteers always know best and have no fear :lol:


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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Jimgward » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:20 am

If anyone had listened to FiveLive this morning, from Dover, discussing no-deal and implications, it wasn't pleasant listening. Already, businesses who receive imports from the EU and businesses exporting, are receiving paperwork that needs to be completed and many were saying they couldn't deal with it and would likely just shut down. Many said they would need to open offices in the EU to enable compliance with EU regulations if they wanted to export. Tariffs would make everything more expensive.

So, as we have asked on here for years ... what are the benefits of leaving the EU in this manner, never mind the benefits at all? I've only ever heard the usual;

'Control of our borders' - yet we cannot deal with the Irish one ...
'Control of Immigration' - yet we always had control ...
'Sovereignty' - which we always had - that's why parliament cannot decide...
'Too many EU rules' - which has been dispelled ...

Now, yet again, I will reiterate, nobody thinks the EU is without fault. In fact, it needs to change and evolve like any. However, outside, we cannot change anything. We will be a small country, on the fringes of Europe, with difficulty in doing trade. Our GDP will take a massive hit and we could take decades to recover (Copyright Rees-Mogg). Every ordinary citizen will be worse off. The rich will be better off - not subject to the new EU anti-criminal laws affecting money, coming in 2020.

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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Firefly » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:05 pm

Jim

As I see it,we can control the Irish one, it's just that the EU insist that they make the rules, not us. This is one of the reasons that we may have a no deal Brexit.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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kingfisher
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by kingfisher » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:14 pm

The only thing I am mildly apprehensive about is the nature and extent of deliberate sabotage of the systems and proceedures by certain disgruntled, uncooperative Remainers, should we simply leave- the choice of action stated clearly on the ballot- which was conclusively won by the Leave side.
Judging by the hysteria, propaganda, and deliberate misinformation propagated through the largely remain media, and the bile and open contempt shown for the 17.4 million citizens of the UK for putting a cross on a legal ballot, one might reasonably expect problems to arise caused by a small but very vociferous group of bad losers who have a vested financial interest in thwarting Brexit, or making a possibly difficult task considerably more so.
Jon.

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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Les Bean » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:33 pm

Any chance of some actual examples of the sabotage of unnamed systems and procedures, misinformation, et al?

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kingfisher
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by kingfisher » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:11 pm

What about obstructing the access to ports by sitting down in the road? Like Plaid Cymru did in order to obstruct the legitimate access to the Brexit Party’s rally in South Wales.
However, I don’t think it is a good idea to offer suggestions. Remainers have energy, and vivid imaginations enough!
Just a pity that much of it could usefully be channeled into making a success of Brexit…
Jon.

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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Firefly » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:45 pm

Jon

Well said
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Les Bean » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:02 pm

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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Dominic » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:09 pm

Web Designer / Developer. Currently working on Paphos Life.
Living in Polemi, Cyprus with my wife and daughter.

Jim B
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Jim B » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:19 pm

kingfisher wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:14 pm
The only thing I am mildly apprehensive about is the nature and extent of deliberate sabotage of the systems and proceedures by certain disgruntled, uncooperative Remainers, should we simply leave- the choice of action stated clearly on the ballot- which was conclusively won by the Leave side.
Judging by the hysteria, propaganda, and deliberate misinformation propagated through the largely remain media, and the bile and open contempt shown for the 17.4 million citizens of the UK for putting a cross on a legal ballot, one might reasonably expect problems to arise caused by a small but very vociferous group of bad losers who have a vested financial interest in thwarting Brexit, or making a possibly difficult task considerably more so.
Jon.
Hello Jon
As a point of order before continuing, the referendum had No legal status though you continue to mislead by stating this which is contrary to what the Supreme Court declared in its judgement.
I can't say I've read or heard from any of the media (Brexit favouring or otherwise) about a Brexit Party rally being obstructed though did read about Remain supporters being attacked by EDL supporters.
As for blocking the roads by Remain supporters, there'll be that much gridlock with truck drivers trying to clear customs the protesters won't be able to get anywhere near the ports for traffic jams.
Reads like your becoming paranoid or are you just setting the stage for when everything turns to chaos you can blame Remainers.

Jim

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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Les Bean » Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:54 pm

Happy in Cyprus wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:38 am
Just one small example, from an article by Rosamund Irwin and Caroline Wheeler in yesterday's ST. Unfortunately no online link, so I am posting the article.

Can a Brexiteer please explain to me how this madness, caused 100% by Brexit, is good for the country and will help the future prosperity of UK plc?


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The question posed has not had one answer

Firefly
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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Firefly » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:54 pm

Because there is no answer, it's all conjecture as usual, trying to panic gullible remainers, it appears that they have succeeded. This may happen, that might happen, no answer to that.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Re: The ongoing madness which is Brexit...

Post by Les Bean » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:08 pm

But the question asked how a hard exit will benefit the country and the future prosperity of the UK. Agreed much is unknown, but also much is known and has been posted by the government. The tangible benefits of a hard exit I have yet to see

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