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Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:37 pm
by Jim B
Jon
I feel as free if not more free in the EU as I did before we joined so really cannot understand where your coming from. I and my family can travel, work, reside or be educated in other member countries; opportunities that were not available to my generation and now you and fellow leavers have voted to have it taken away from us all for sovereignty which after all means different things to different people.
At least Remainers voted for something that is tangible and not wishful thinking and fanciful in this day and age. To use past wars and sacrifice as an argument for leaving the EU is an argument I could use for remaining, we lost family and my father suffered all his life from debilitating illness after serving in the war.
Billions of Euros were directed to where it was needed by the EU, yes it may of been UK money but would it have been spent by British governments where it was needed; I don't think so?

Jim

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:24 pm
by kingfisher
Jim, there was nothing stopping anyone from traveling, working,residing- or being educated in European countries before the EU- you talk as if the UK was then part of the USSR.
Best we agree to differ as regards the past conflicts- thank God others did make huge sacrifices, or we wouldn’t be having this conversation!
Jon.

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:00 pm
by Firefly
The way things are going, as I see it, the remainers will probably get their way, in spite of losing the referendum. :evil:

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:15 pm
by Jim B
Jon
I used to work in Europe and it wasn't anything like you make out, you needed work permits which were difficult to get hold of and once the job was finished you had to leave the country. You couldn't stay and look for another job and reside as you suggest. Education was limited to those who could afford it and there were few overseas opportunities as there were after joining the EU until deciding to leave.
You are making sweeping statements without any experience of what it was really like. I do have experience of life on the front line believe it or not, you don't have to be in the Military to experience it.
As I said, the social benefits for Joe Public are much better being part of the EU, sovereignty and autonomy don't put food on the table.
Jim

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:35 pm
by Lincoln
I am relaxed sitting in the sun. Having a refreshing Gin and Toni. aaah bliss.

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:39 pm
by tonee
I lived in Cyprus pre EU,no problem,everything was a lot cheaper as well!

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:53 pm
by Jimgym
Lincoln wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:35 pm
I am relaxed sitting in the sun. Having a refreshing Gin and Toni. aaah bliss.
Same here! Radio on and enjoying the beautiful late afternoon sun

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:29 pm
by Jim B
And I just watched Everton thrash Arsenal with a nice bottle of red. ;-)

Jim

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:34 pm
by Jimgym
Jim B wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:29 pm
And I just watched Everton thrash Arsenal with a nice bottle of red. ;-)

Jim
Just seen the result, well done Everton! ( sorry, off topic!)

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:27 pm
by ApusApus
Dominic wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:00 pm
No I did click the link, and read a few of the articles. I still can't see why you bothered to post the thread.
Obviously, with 43 replies and 403 views other members don't share your view, thankfully!


Shane

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:31 pm
by Dominic
That's just because people like to argue. In this case, part of the argument is questioning the point of the thread, so I wouldn't bother being to proud of those statistics. :lol:

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:38 pm
by ApusApus
As I said "other members don't share your view" whether you like it or not is up to you?


Shane

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:44 pm
by kingfisher
Jim B- I thought it funny that I, a knuckle-dragging leaver, spent the afternoon in the beautiful countryside enjoying the sunshine, the wildflowers and birds, while you were reclining on your couch with rattle, flat cap and red wine- [no brown and mild for you!!]- watching the soccer. Surely wrong way round!!
P.S. Firefly- not only is it not over yet- it hasn't even started! Brexit is only a symptom.
Jon.

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:05 pm
by Jimgward
I have yet to see anyone on here laud the EU, but many having loads to say negative about it.

Similarly, I have seen most laud the UK, and I and a few notable others, are the only ones to criticise it. Maybe from negative experiences or from realism that any form of government is pretty much open to question.

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:20 am
by Jimgward
I have seen HiC and Jim B both say that the EU is not a utopia, but the best option for the UK. I.e. loads of faults, but more positives than negatives.

The people who denigrate the EU generally regard it as some unelected behemoth we have no control over - much like Rees-Mogg did, before admitting the UK can’t veto almost anything within it..... So perhaps we are as powerful within it as any and as guilty as any of the problems within it ...

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:58 am
by Happy in Cyprus
ronk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:16 pm
Frankly I don't really understand why someone who has made such a move would be SO bothered as to what goes on in UK..after all they left!

No less puzzling for me than those expats who choose to permanently reside in Cyprus - a committed member of the EU - should be so venomously opposed to the EU and all it's supposed ills.

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:32 am
by jeba
ronk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:16 pm
>Dominic..jeba ..in my opinion the point of the thread is obvious. The title should give people a clue..or are some folk just being obtuse here.
In the first line we have..."Well, just when certain individuals on here like to think otherwise, maybe the glorious EU is not so glorious after all".
.....

....So though I cannot speak for Apus Apus my opinion is that the point of this thread, including links, that some, including you Dominic, apparently find so hard to grasp, is that all is not so "rosy" in the EU and some of it's member states.
However, the special reference to Germany makes it a bit less obvious to see his point. It would be a banality to merely state that the EU (or Germany) isn´t without problems. A bit like stating that it´s darker at night than during the day.

Maybe the OP could clarify whether he just wanted to point out what everybody knew anyway or whether he wanted to make a different point?

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:04 am
by Jim B
Ronk
You make generalisations without any real insight to the reasoning of why people like me left the UK through necessity due to all our heavy industry either being sold off or shut down due to Thatchers policies of turning the UK into a service sector.

Jim

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:09 am
by Dominic
ApusApus wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:38 pm
As I said "other members don't share your view" whether you like it or not is up to you?


Shane
You must be really proud of the quality debate your opening post has generated. :roll:

Re: The Rosy EU

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:22 am
by Devil
Well, I'm pretty neutral (not really pretty at my age!) and I've posted for both camps. However, it seems to me, at this time, that the UK is unfit to govern itself with its shambolic performance and internecine splits in the parties. At the same time, the EU is smoothly conducting its business, calmly and with measure.

Which kind of governance is better?