Bercow Stops Third Vote

[kingfisher]

France ready to veto any meaningless brexit delay.
[There go our fish!!!]
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brit ... SKCN1R01RU

[Dominic]

The no-deal scenario was non-binding anyway, wasn't it? But given that that vote happened, why would it cause a huge swing? And we are talking a huge swing here. May didn't just lose, she got spanked big time.

Are you now also pro another referendum, by the way? Surely the dynamics of that vote have changed somewhat, in that people now know what the leave options are, and what they will lose?

[Dominic]

France ready to veto any meaningless brexit delay.
[There go our fish!!!]
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brit ... SKCN1R01RU

Who can blame them?

PARIS (Reuters) - France is ready to veto any British request for a Brexit delay that either kicks the can down the road without offering a way out of its deadlock or imperils European Union institutions, an official in President Emmanuel Macron’s office said on Tuesday.

[Dominic]

>Dominic this article from early in the year gives an idea of the sorts of things that can alter said "dynamic" - presumably the sort of things that Hudswell was referring to in more recent times?
"What could change the dynamics of Brexit vote?"
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46831229

The many twists and turns of the last week or so seem to be in the same vein as the BBC article was talking about..no?

I found this piece from the morning of 14th March interesting:
https://www.benzinga.com/news/19/03/133 ... gnificance

We now know what happened in Parliament last Thursday:
MPs have voted to authorise Theresa May to seek an extension of the two-year Article 50 negotiations, delaying Brexit beyond March 29.

They earlier decisively rejected an attempt to secure a second referendum, voting by 334 to 85 – a margin of 249 – against an amendment tabled by members of The Independent Group of former Labour and Tory MPs, who quit their parties in part because of differences over EU withdrawal.

And by the far narrower margin of 314-312, MPs voted down a cross-party bid for Parliament to seize control of the Brexit process.

Well first of all, the first dynamic they mentioned was non-existent:

"First off, with any rebellion it's not a bad rule of thumb to suggest that many of those who have made loud complaints may, in the end, prove to be less brave than they at first appear."

May got spanked, not once, but twice.

However, the second dynamic could include the Brexit delay Hudswell mentioned. I grant you (and Hudswell) that.

But what, really, is the point of an extension anyway? Isn't it, as Macron said, just kicking the ball down the field? Why would the threat of extending negotiations make somebody who voted against May suddenly change their mind?

There are three reasons people voted against May:

1. They want to remain in Europe.
2. They want to leave with no deal.
3. They think it is a shit deal.

Now, why would they change their vote? People wanting to remain in Europe certainly wouldn't change. Neither would people who think it is a shit deal. Surely they would rather a better deal was negotiated and that is only going to happen with an extension. This leaves the people wanting no deal. Why would they change their vote?

[Dominic]

The no-deal scenario was non-binding anyway, wasn't it? But given that that vote happened, why would it cause a huge swing? And we are talking a huge swing here. May didn't just lose, she got spanked big time.

Are you now also pro another referendum, by the way? Surely the dynamics of that vote have changed somewhat, in that people now know what the leave options are, and what they will lose?

Yes the Dynamics of the referendum have changed and if anything those changes have deepened my desire to leave the EU. As I have said previously, the Common Market was a force for good, and what the UK voted to join. However, given the political direction now being driven forward by the EU centre, the ambition for the creation of a Federalist State and the mechanisms that surround it, I remain convinced the UK should leave.

You didn't answer my question. Are you pro another referendum, given the dynamics have changed?

[Dominic]

But the dynamics have changed!

[Dominic]

The referendum I believe was a one off, and I personally would have respected a decision that went either way. Referendums cut through our system of a representative democracy, It is certainly not something I would like to become “routine” in our political system.A further or succession of further referendums would undermine that democracy, we have had our say, let’s leave it to the professionals...

So if the professionals decide to remain, would you be ok with that?

[Uncle D]

Brexiteers confused as John Bercow exercises parliamentary sovereignty that the leave campaigners said we never had.

[Dominic]

But what if there are no such terms? How, for instance would the Irish border be solved in a way that keeps everybody happy?

[tonee]

Bercow quotes a law from...1604,crazy.Wonder how Sally,s getting on?She,s gone very quiet

[Devil]

Why's it crazy? It's the way the non-existing constitution works and always has done. It starts with the Magna Carta (1215).

The Parliament of the United Kingdom retained the Acts passed by the Parliament of England from 1267 to 1706. Over time, some statutes that were once constitutional in nature have been repealed, others have been amended and remain in statute, while others are current legislation as originally enacted

[Devil]

I sincerely hope this nasty man never makes it to the Lords.

You mean that you wish him to stay as Speaker for ever?

[josef k]

Removed because he is doing his job? Be honest, he is the best Speaker since Betty Bothroyd.

[Uncle D]

John hasnt got a short memory, not too long ago the Tories led by that Coward Cameron tried to oust him, great the way he gives them a dirty look after they failed

[jeba]

And at the moment it is the EU that is driving the UK to a no deal, insisting on a “Yes Vote” for Mrs Mays Deal in return for an extension of Brexit.

That´s a weird way of looking at it. The EU had agreed to a deal. It was the UK which rejected it. How is this the EU´s fault?

[Jimgward]

The speaker has 'advised' that a 3rd vote with little likelihood of any change, will be a waste of time and procedure. That doesn't mean a 3rd vote cannot take place. May can restructure parts of it, to allow acceptance by parliament.

[Devil]

And for those applauding Mr Bercow...well he insists a third vote will not take place so....looks like a hard Brexit.

It means nothing of the sort; you have it wrong - yet again! She can have a third, fourth, fifth vote, provided that they are all substantially different from the previous one and each other.

[Jim B]

Hudswell
You're twisting words again, the UK didn't declare anything as it was part of the rules for leaving that no trade deals could be agreed until after the country had left.
The top and bottom of it TM has put party before country at every step and that's why we are where we are today. You blame anyone and everyone except those responsible; the Tory Party.
Just waiting for your reds under the bed attack now.

Jim

[Jimgward]

This 'shit storm' (and sorry about the expletive, but it's very appropriate) that is about to hit now, as crashing out seems more likely than anything else, is going to cause absolute chaos. Any Leave . voter that doesn't see how bad it will be is either blinkered, or doesn't care. We are ill-prepared for the consequences. We haven't created the paperwork to even allow trade to take place. We could lose millions of jobs and prices could escalate upwards overnight.

This is not any form of scare-mongering - look at this from the BBC;

"It could become the UK's biggest peacetime emergency in almost a century.

Unless a withdrawal agreement is approved (or Article 50 is delayed), at 23:00 GMT on 29 March the UK will leave the European Union with no negotiated exit - and in a second everything will change.

Suddenly, British goods going to the EU will be subject to duty (a payment, for example on imports and exports), and will need to be checked for compliance with things like sanitary regulations.

Goods arriving in the UK from the EU could face checks too, though the government has said it will not do that straight away, partly because it doesn't have the infrastructure."

i.e. even after 3 years, we are no further forward in preparations for this worst-case scenario that is now looking more than likely!

[Jim B]

All the media, pundits and experts agree that she has been trying to appease the right wing of the party from day one; the ERG are a party within a party and have dictated terms to which she has capitulated time and time again.
You are so blinded by your dislike of the the EU that you are not accepting what is obvious.

Jim