Has Labour Finally Nailed Its Name To The Brexit Flag?

[ApusApus]

Finally it seems, Jeremy Corbyn & his shadow cabinet appear to have decided where they stand on Brexit after last night's statement, albeit a "soft" one! However, are they now going to face the same problems that the Tories have endured, i.e., widespread disagreement & dissent within their party & self-destruction in the eyes of their followers?

Maybe this is a sample of Labour's version of what's to come https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-47157567!

The only thing that seems to have been concluded by this statement is that the notion of a second referendum is dead!


Shane

[Dominic]

Thing is, the only time there should morally be a second referendum, is when a proper deal has been made. Otherwise, you will be asking people to vote for exactly the same thing they voted for previously, and they have already voted on that.

Now, if a deal is decided, why would the people who voted to leave necessarily want to change their mind?

[ApusApus]

Not really, there is no longer a moral reason for a second referendum, let alone a democratic one which was never the case, as Parliament will be able to vote and the majority of members, as denoted by a larger majority of Tory, Labour & DUP members, will be able to vote on the form of Brexit that we take! The question of whether we leave or stay was taken in the referendum of 2016!


Shane

[Jimgward]

This “democracy decided in the referendum” is such claptrap....

Democracy allows debate, changes, different decisions..... otherwise mistakes will be made...

If parliament can agree a deal, fair enough.... if not, it should go to a second referedum - the deal or remain....

[Jimgward]

Now, if a deal is decided, why would the people who voted to leave necessarily want to change their mind?

Maybe because the deal isn’t what they expected? That Brexit isn’t what they expected? Or that now they’ve seen the light/darkness, they’ve changed their mind?

[ApusApus]

This “democracy decided in the referendum” is such claptrap....

Are you saying that this democratric referendum was "claptrap" and not a "peoples vote"?

Democracy allows debate, changes, different decisions..... otherwise mistakes will be made...

Yes it does and after much debate by many, the Labour party appears to agree that leaving the EU is the outcome!

If parliament can agree a deal, fair enough.... if not, it should go to a second referedum - the deal or remain....

If the majority of Labour back Corbyn then it is a fait a complis!

Watch this space!


Shane

[Dominic]

Now, if a deal is decided, why would the people who voted to leave necessarily want to change their mind?

Maybe because the deal isn’t what they expected? That Brexit isn’t what they expected? Or that now they’ve seen the light/darkness, they’ve changed their mind?

Similarly, some people who were remainers might also have changed their minds. Let's face it, Remain lost the vote because they were too cocky about the expected outcome and put up a sloppy argument that concentrated on the negatives of leaving rather than the positives of staying. Has that changed at all?

[Jimgward]

Now, if a deal is decided, why would the people who voted to leave necessarily want to change their mind?

Maybe because the deal isn’t what they expected? That Brexit isn’t what they expected? Or that now they’ve seen the light/darkness, they’ve changed their mind?

Similarly, some people who were remainers might also have changed their minds. Let's face it, Remain lost the vote because they were too cocky about the expected outcome and put up a sloppy argument that concentrated on the negatives of leaving rather than the positives of staying. Has that changed at all?

I think it hugely has..,.. I speak to people who until recently were 100% leave.... and have changed their minds.... Yes, some Remainers might have also changed their minds.... however, why would people generally not change their minds... once they know what they’re voting for - one side or another.....

[WHL]

Personally I think it's Stupid for the UK to leave Europe, but I'm a democrat first and when you have a referendum , you stand by that result, whether you agree or not, dismissing the result by saying people didn't know what they voted for, and calling for a new referendum.. makes you no better, than the North Korean style of Democracy.

[Jimgym]

Would there be so much talk of a second referendum if Remain had won? I have my doubts!

[Firefly]

Jimgym

Probably not, speaking as a Brexiteer, I would have accepted the referendum result, after all, I didn't expect 'my side' to win anyway.

Jackie

[Dominic]

Well, it wouldn't make sense to have a second referendum if the situation hadn't changed.

I can see the logic on having another vote if people actually know what they are going to be voting for, but otherwise, you would just be voting for the same thing. And if remain had won, then the situation wouldn't be changing, so there would be no point in having another vote.

[Jimgym]

Well, it wouldn't make sense to have a second referendum if the situation hadn't changed.

I can see the logic on having another vote if people actually know what they are going to be voting for, but otherwise, you would just be voting for the same thing. And if remain had won, then the situation wouldn't be changing, so there would be no point in having another vote.

Many Leave voters might disagree if they had lost, and be demanding another vote, rather like Remain. They might even come up with a catchy if redundant title like The People's Vote!

[Dominic]

But on what basis would they be asking for another vote? How would the status of remaining in Europe have changed?

[Jimgym]

Because it wasn’t explained what staying in the EU would mean? Just mirror the arguments of some Remain voters. Not my viewpoint in case anyone is wondering!

[Dominic]

But what explanation would be required? You are not seriously trying to suggest that there is no difference to the two scenarios? If you are going to argue a position at least do it with a bit of conviction.

[Jimgym]

But what explanation would be required? You are not seriously trying to suggest that there is no difference to the two scenarios? If you are going to argue a position at least do it with a bit of conviction.

The explanation of how things would be changing in Europe perhaps? My rather simple point was that either side could argue that there should be another referendum because people don't know what will happen, if Britain was in/out. It was also to point out how silly the whole thing was getting. There was a vote, by the people and a decision was reached. I don't need to argue that with any conviction as it has happened.