By the time some of you read this, May could be gone....

[Jim B]

There cannot be a Leave supporter with a modicum of sense still believing we're going to come out of this debacle better off (even in the long term) than we are now.
Seems to me it's like cutting off a leg to cure athlete's foot.

Jim

[Jimgward]

The EU has corrupt management of many areas. There are unelected officials (civil servants in Uk speak) with too much power. They don't manage budgets well. They waste a lot.

The UK is largely not much different - nor any country.

The EU, however, has at least helped many countries that needed help. Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Greece - all benefitted from investments in Infrastructure, Agricultural policies etc. etc. Yes, it meant the richer nations often paid, but that's where the world has to be (IMHO)

The EU also supported a hell of a lot of good in the UK. Investment in research science, medicine, human rights and much more. H&S, as an example, was a shambles in the UK no so long ago. It is now overly policed - but that's the UK's interpretation of the rules. It has saved lots of lives.

Minimum wages, employment rights and much more would not have happened in the UK otherwise. It is foolish to belief otherwise. We even now still have employers ripping off staff - pensions and wages (Green, Ashley and more) and the government does zilch to stop it. We pay benefits to support people living under the poverty line - and working! Rather than forcing employers to pony up, do the right thing and alleviate the reliance on government.

[Jimgward]

I think there needs to be overwhelming (60%+) support for another referendum for it to happen. 54% is not enough and too close to accepting the previous result.

[Dominic]

I'll thank you to stop correcting my grammar and spelling at every opportunity ronk. I note you don't do it to others, just me.

I do the best I can, and if that doesn't meet you 'learned' standards, then tough.

I left school with just one 'A' Level in Physics, but get by

Where did Ronk correct your grammar and spelling?

[ApusApus]

Oh HiC you are the "perennial doom & gloom" merchant as usual! If Spain is now seeking "joint sovereignty" then that would be a backward step for them …………………… they want total control over Gibraltar not joint! If only you had the foresight to realise 3-4 months ago that your prophecies were only in your head but then I guess you won't!


Shane

[Jim B]

I think the Spanish governments take on the UK government's statement is totally the opposite of certain posters interpretation on here are. At the end of the day the Spaniards will have the whip hand during trade negotiations as they will hold a veto but with the Tories history of selling off the family silver; in their position I would be a very nervous Gibralterian.

Jim

[ApusApus]

Back on topic, I think your thread title was a bit premature Jimgward, don't you?


Shane

[Jimgward]

Well, I was certainly wrong about Theresa being ousted... guilty of believing the twit Rees-Mogg

It now needs parliament to vote in favour of a deal that nobody seems happy about. It simply puts off the NI situation for a few years and leaves us partly in the club but with no votes.... I’m sure most wont regard this as a victory

[ApusApus]

I agree for once, whether she gets any further is anybody's guess but then she has made it thus far!


Shane

[Jim B]

The Falklands was a different time and a different world. May has agreed Spain will have a say in the future of Gibralter; that's not me saying that, it's countless commentators, media outlets and political experts.
What are we going to do, declare war on Spain when they start demanding their pound of flesh; the whole situation is turning into a farce.
Jim

[ApusApus]

Oh, the strength of speculation Jim B …………………… it's been the essence of the Brexit conundrum all along!


Shane

[Jim B]

Hudswell
The days of sending in a gunboat have long since gone. Unfortunately many Leavers are under the misapprehension that we still have an Empire and can go around threatening countries if we can't have our own way.
Lloyds post is succinct and spells it out how things really are rather than how people wish it to be.

Jim

[WHL]

I dont think Spain needs to invade , closing the border would do alot of harm.

[WHL]

I might be wrong, but re the Northern Ireland peace deal, isn't there something that says, if the majority in NI ever want union with Eire, then that will happen?, could this not be done with Spain and Gibraltar?

[WHL]

WHL....did they not have a vote about 15 years ago which resulted in them wanting to stay British.

What i'm suggesting is there is a vote every, say five years, it gives the Spanish hope that one day they will get the Rock back, and it gives the locals reassurance that, they will stay under British rule, as long as they wish.

[ApusApus]

Perhaps they will offer the same to Morocco for their two territories.

The Gibraltar Controversy and the Irony of Spanish Claims

Spain’s attempts to recover Gibraltar from the British bear an uncanny resemblance to Morocco’s campaign to eventually absorb Ceuta and Melilla. Spain’s insistence that the principle of territorial integrity justifies its claim to regain Gibraltar is, again, a double edged sword. Morocco claims precisely the same rights over the plazas. The issue of the plazas and Spain’s determination to acquire Gibraltar present a complex riddle of political geography. Gibraltar on the Spanish mainland (known as El Peñon – The Rock) is a narrow peninsula jutting southward towards Africa. It was conquered from the Moors in 1462, thirty years before the fall of Grenada, the last Muslim stronghold on the Iberian Peninsula, marking the final victory of the Spanish Reconquista. In 1704, Gibraltar was seized by a joint Anglo-Dutch military force in the War of the Spanish Succession. The Peace Treaty of Utrecht in 1713 awarded Gibraltar to Great Britain “in perpetuity.” In terms of length of ownership, Gibraltar has been British longer than it was under Spanish-Christian rule just as Ceuta and Melilla have been Spanish longer than any claim put forward by Morocco. The inhabitants of Gibraltar even expressed a wish to become part of the United Kingdom but the British government was reluctant to go so far and rejected the proposal in 1976!


Shane

[tonee]

Surely, this is a good deal for ex-pats?Keep our rights,the exchange rate will increase,hardly anything will change for us.A no deal will see the pound plummet.Cannot see what not to like from an ex-pat view!

[Jimgward]

Hudswell
The days of sending in a gunboat have long since gone. Unfortunately many Leavers are under the misapprehension that we still have an Empire and can go around threatening countries if we can't have our own way.
Lloyds post is succinct and spells it out how things really are rather than how people wish it to be.

Jim

You see assumption, the mother of all cock ups...why assume I was referring to any form of Military action, which would be absurd...the fact is the citizens of Gibralter wish to remain affiliated to the UK, the Spanish are using BREXIT as another opportunity to challenge that wish...and have been slapped down...

AGREED

[Jimgward]

We should be taking a leaf out of the Irish way of referendums.... in pairs, to ratify...

We should now put the deal to the people..... two options - the deal or stay.,...

[ApusApus]

And if it goes the way of “remain” do we have a third referendum?


Shane