Windrush Ooh Aah

[William Morris]

And The May Woman tried to blame it on "a previous labour government ".

I hail from East London and the influx of West Indies families in the 50s was evident. Lots of Jamaican mens came over to work on the trains and buses, etc.

The shortage of labour to rebuild Britain after the Second World War was due to young British men having been killed by the Germans and Japanese. Like my fathers two older brothers.

When my father returned from the Eight Army, where he had been fighting for Montgomery, he found a job as a bus driver working alongside some of these fine men who answered the call to "help" Britain to rebuild.

[Jimgward]

There appears to be as much incompetence related to when May was in post responsible, as to Rudd.... so both should take full responsibility.

I cant help feeling that insidious elements are at work, digging up stuff to affect Corbyn, May and others, though. Granted, the windrush situation is terrible, but I think that others are gearing up to try to ensure no opposition to their efforts for leadership.

[Loxely Man]

And why are you unable to agree with that?

Because our factories were outdated, labour intensive. and inefficient due to lack of investment and could not compete with newly equipped Europe and Japan so the easy answer was to bring in commonwealth labour. I and my late Father worked in what were nearly industrial museums.

[Dominic]

And your point is?

[robf]

It would seem to be the very worst time to annoy the commonwealth countries. With Brexit looming we really need to be fostering good relations with potential trade partners.

[William Morris]

I am not sure that Loxley Man is focusing on the correct era.

Europe and Japan were in ruins in the 50s. Germany was split in two with the East a virtual ghost country. Japan was producing cheap trinkets at best. "Made in Japan" meant "this is rubbish" in that period.

The 70s was a bad time for Britain, agreed BUT the Windrush issue was prior to that.

EDIT >>>>> The Empire Windrush docked at Tilbury on June 22nd 1948. I just looked that date up, good old google.

[PaphosAL]

Post WW2 wasn't the first time that HMG decided to encourage overseas labour to help with the British economy. In the 1950's, it was about manpower to help run the London buses and underground (not to mention lady power as nurses in our hospitals?)

Cast your minds back to perhaps a century earlier... WHO were enticed over here to provide the labour to help build our roads, railways, and canals infrastructures? The NAVVIES (navigators) from Ireland, of course!

AL

[Loxely Man]

I am not sure that Loxley Man is focusing on the correct era.
The 70s was a bad time for Britain, agreed

So the 70s was a bad time for Britain, er hadn't we just gone into the Common Market, wasn't North Sea Oil & Gas in full flow? So where did all the money go from the fore mentioned? If it was such a bad time can anyone suggest what it would have been like without the oil gas and common market. Soup kitchens, food riots, Jarrow march MkII, sweets on ration etc.
We were conned then just as we were conned about the need of commonwealth labour

[Loxely Man]

Post WW2 wasn't the first time that HMG decided to encourage overseas labour to help with the British economy. In the 1950's, it was about manpower to help run the London buses and underground (not to mention lady power as nurses in our hospitals?)
AL

Post war was anything after 1945, the army, navy and air force were massively reduced in manpower freeing up massive amounts of people to go back to the industrial museums.

[Dominic]

Leaving aside the fact that you are talking utter twaddle, so what? For whatever reason they arrived here, they were invited and answered the call. If you can't cope with the fact that they helped build the UK back up again, at least acknowledge the fact that they were invited guests and have every right to be in the UK.

[Steve - SJD]

My mother/father-in-law came over from Jamaica in the late fifties I believe and the stories they tell of the reception
received from some (not all) are pretty disgraceful. Thankfully they stuck it out and now have four children who after uni are
working in either health & social services with two other children working in manufacturing. Their contribution to the UK has been
invaluable and they among the many other immigrants have made a positive contribution to society.

Whilst welcoming Mrs May's frank apology, I sincerely hope that the words of the Govt. are translated into action.

It would be nice to think that this episode may signal a turning point where immigrants are not all lumped togther
and the conversation surrounding immigration can be in a more positive tone.

Cheers

Steve

[PaphosAL]

Another aspect of post WW2 England, were the car factories. A local example to me (in Luton) was the Vauxhall factory, previously geared up in the previous decade for making military gear, like trucks, Churchill tanks, steel helmets, and suchlike.

In 1946, General Motors decided to re-establish civilian vehicle production at Vauxhall and Bedford. Trouble was, STEEL for fabricating new factories was almost non-existant in England at that time.. So GM took one of their Canadian factories apart, then shipped it over labelled as a kit build, for rebulding in Luton, where it became Vauxhall AA Block.

Where it served well for the next 50 years, producing engines, axles, running gear for Vauxhall cars and Bedford vans under the GM banner. In fact, this particular part of the old Vauxhall site in Luton is still going very strong today 'as' IBC, where they churn out Vauxhall Vivaro vans and (badged) Renault and Nissan equivalents.

So if the factory you are/were working in is a museum, don't point the finger at HMG. Ask the factory owners and senior management the right questions!!!

AL

[Rita Sherry]

I have been reading the posts relating to this subject and concur with most regarding the fiasco that has occurred. That being said I cannot agree with the criticism of some posters regarding the action and proposed action now being taken. First of all Mrs May has apologised and informed all those concerned, and indeed the rest of us, that the Government will set up an urgent investigation into the claims of those affected. I really do not understand what is wrong with that. Surely had she not apologised and got on with the investigation without the courtesy of informing anyone that too would have been criticised. Are people really suggesting that nothing should be done? - please dont say they should all resign albeit that will leave the House of Commons empty. The situation is urgent it needs fixing and hopefully that is precisely what is going to happen because those affected require urgent action now not a talking shop of who is to blame when it is as clear as a pike staff every person who calls themselves an MP is - where have they been all this time? I can tell you - scoring points of each other.

I was living in South Lambeth, just round the corner from Brixton, when some of the first arrivals from the West Indies arrived and I can truthfully say they were not given the warmest of welcomes by the local populace particularly where matters of accommodation and work were concerned. True many of the men found work on the buses and underground and did sterling work but that did not stop the nastiness that many had to endure. I am not entirely sure that, despite definite improvements in attitude, discrimination on all sides has gone entirely away.

Regarding the posts above William Morris suggests that Mrs May has attempted to blame the Labour Government. However I watched Prime Minister's Questions and in answer to the question from Mr Corbyn whether she would take responsibility for the loss of the Landing cards she replied "No they were destroyed in 2009 on instructions from the then Labour Government" that is factually a correct statement. Another poster suggests that the landing cards have now been found in the archives but I am not so sure that is an accurate statement. From what I have been able to ascertain what has been found are the passenger lists of those who travelled from the West Indies to the UK. Unfortunately those lists appear to only contain the names of the passengers and not details the immigration authorities would have required.

On arrival both the landing cards and the passports would have been stamped showing the "Indefinite Leave to Enter" endorsement. However at that particular time the passengers were dealt with on a family basis so it is feasible it would be the head of the family whose documentation was so stamped plus any single persons and this is where the problem now seems to arise and without the relevant documentation to examine nigh on impossible. Please bear in mind that the passports would have been from the persons' country of origin not UK ones. We should also bear in mind that most of the heads of families may now be dead given they are/were around my age (I am now 86). Nevertheless matters could and should have been handled more sympathetically.

There appears to be some confusion over the words "Indefinite Leave to Remain" - that status had and still has conditions attached to it. For instance whilst the document holder granted that permission is free to enter the UK, work, have access to medical treatment etc it does not confer citizenship status. One of the conditions is that whilst the holder is free to travel should they remain outside of the UK for over two years then the previous entitlement is cancelled and there is a need to make fresh application. This is the primary reason why there has to be an investigation.

I read in the press this very week of an 81 year old Jamaican lady who says she came to the UK in 1960 and worked for over 50 years paid her taxes etc. In 2006 she says she had her passport stolen which had the said stamp in it. In 2010 (four years ago) she wished to travel to Jamaica for personal and family reasons. The authorities informed her she would require a visa if she wished to return but undeterred she did travel (presumably on a Jamaican passport) and is still there having been refused entry back to the UK. She alleges she has been told the authorities wish her to produce the relevant documentation in support of her claim personally but that she cannot do if she is unable to enter UK. She has family in the UK and what perplexes me is why her family cannot produce her National Insurance Number, Her Pension details, Bills etc to the authorities and why none of this appears to have been taken up here - mystery.

For Lloyd (HIC) please. Like you I wish to exchange my MEU1 form (which has no renewal date required) for a MEU3A to continue to enjoy "residential status" However if,as you say, this confers permanent residential status on us ex pat Brits why would anyone wish to obtain Cypriot Nationality? and what, if any, conditions are attached to that document as I have explained applies to the UK "Indefinite Leave" status? For those of us who just take trips to the UK or holidays it would not appear to make a difference but what if your and others children/grandchildren go away to study, take a gap year etc? Just a thought.

I sincerely hope and pray that the problems which have arisen for those unfortunate people affected are quickly sorted out - I would hardly have thought there are so many as doubtless many applied and were granted British Citizenship. That said it is my firm belief that everyone no matter their nationality is entitled to respect and consideration. I would also suggest we leave the arguments, blame etc to the politicians (all of them) who assisted in creating this mess. In reality if Jermey Corbyn was Prime Minister he would be saying what Mrs May is presently saying and she what he is saying -that is politics. I should know I worked for Central Government for over 40 years in the backroom so to speak and nothing changes just the personnel.

Rita

[Maggie B]

Oh Rita . . . . . . . . What a wonderful 'balanced' post. Thankyou. X

Maggie B

[PaphosAL]

Thanks, Rita. It's sounding rather like an episode of "Yes Prime Minister" where the viewers quickly realize that it's the Civil Service who actually run this country. Visit the new Home Office (built by the French and Portugese) adjacent to Parliament, and you'll get the drift...

Strange that "Yes PM" was Maggie Thatcher's favouririte TV program? Imagine all those thousands of civil servants in there (and thousands of similar establishments around the UK) all on gold-plated / diamond-encrusted pensions, thanks to the tax payers...

AL

[Rita Sherry]

Steady on Al - I was one of those Civil Servants and whilst I am comfortable I can assure you I do not receive either a gold plated or diamond encrusted pension. I worked jolly hard, often long hours but loved it - met and worked with some very intelligent and interesting people even if that seems a contradiction in terms for us Civil Servants.

I cannot quite understand where you are suggesting the Home Office is - it was always opposite St.James Park Tube station and was then a relatively new building so when did it move please? One amongst many of my Client Departments - happy days

Thanks for paying your taxes just as I did and still do!!!

Rita

NB Al The Home Office is still in Marsham Street, London SW1 and, as I said, opposite St James' Park Tube Station so not sure which building you are referring to.

[PaphosAL]

I'm talking about the massive new build Home Office right next door to (or behind) the Houses of Parliament, Rita. I was in there with my mate, commissioning two computer rooms gas Fire Alarm systems ready for interfacing to the main building FA system.

More tomorrow, perhaps, as I have other peculiarites on this Home Office I'd like to share...

AL

[PhotoLady]

Interesting points from Rita when she says those black immigrants who were invited to UK to fill much needed positions in the job market at the time were not very well met in the 50s.

Here we are again a number of years later facing another similar scenario within our job markets, which apparently can only get worse over the next couple of years.

Yet, we're happy to go chucking them out, left right and centre.... It seems to me we haven't learned much over the years.

All I can say is, I'm glad that wasn't the experience I, along with my other immigrant colleagues and friends received when we came to live and seek work in Cyprus.

On another thought, I would have assumed a fair number of the Windrush people would have applied for or renewed a passport since their arrival all those years ago. Would they have been passports issued by UK or would they still had to apply through their country of origin?

Whatever has happened is wrong. Someone needs to sort it out so those people who came when we needed them are allowed to continue as they were, with the knowledge they are safe to do so.

I don't care who it is that fixes it - as long as they do it quickly and with as least fuss as possible.

[WHL]

Not given the warmest of Welcomes?, try

No Irish
No Blacks
No Dogs

seen on many a window.

[Rita Sherry]

Thank you to those of you above who have kindly welcomed my view on this topic. It would now appear the powers that be have moved quickly to hopefully resolve the situation for those caught up in this mess. Parliament however still seems intent on having a slanging match.

Austin 7 I did/do appreciate your input regarding the "landing card situation" and I had already found the list your illustration shows but unfortunately it was as I said in my post the Passenger list rather than the actual landing cards where any endorsement would be found. Not to worry it would appear all is now resolved but still Parliament argues - it was ever thus.

Photolady - your query as to renewal of passports held by the people involved would be those issued by the country of origin and if renewed would, save for those who had applied and been granted British Citizenship, continue to be from the country of origin of the individual concerned.

WHL: I am and was, at the time of the arrival of the immigrants involved, aware of the notices you have highlighted - I was living amongst the people at the time. It was and is not my intention to use inflammatory language when posting. Various people of my acquaintance at the time actually endeavoured (with some success)to make it unlawful to display such notices.

On a lighter note - way back in those days I was travelling with my daughter (then aged 3) on a bus from South Lambeth to Clapham sitting on the bench seat facing the exit. The conductor was a West Indian and Denise (my daughter) just kept staring at the gentleman with me thinking "please, please Denise stop staring" when suddenly in a voice which could, I swear, be heard all over the bus Denise said "Mummy is that man made of chocolate?" the conductor then fell about laughing as did most of the other passengers - out of the mouths of babes...

Once more thank you. Best wishes

Rita