Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

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Dominic
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by Dominic »

For every "remoaner" there is a racist brexiter. Both sides can throw insults around with gay abandon. It does nothing to further intelligent debate though.
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by Dominic »

And just to clarify, no I am not saying Brexiters are racist. Some are, just as some people who voted remain moan about it.
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by Conoflex »

In that case the remainers job is to make sure the remoaners concentrate their efforts making sure post Brexit Britain doesn't become a racist hell hole - not to try and stop the Brexit process itself surely ?

However whilst I know lots of Brexiteers who aren't racist, but I have still to meet a remainer who genuinely is accepting of the result- and that's not just because of the company I keep :lol:
Last edited by Conoflex on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by Firefly »

Interesting, are there no racist remainers then ?

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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by cyprusgrump »

Firefly wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:29 pm Interesting, are there no racist remainers then ?

Jackie
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by keving »

cyprusgrump wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:39 pm
Firefly wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:29 pm Interesting, are there no racist remainers then ?

Jackie
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I dont know how many racists there are in the UK. Shall we say 1 million?

I don't know which way they voted in the referendum. Is it reasonably to assume that 520,000 voted Leave and 480,000 voted Remain??
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by Jimgward »

My outlaws voted Brexit and most, but not all, for reasons of immigrations. That doesn't make them racist, but some of them are! They admit it....

Equally, I know some remainers who are racist, but unfortunately, since Farage, the King of racists, led the campaign, its no wonder people associate racism with Brexit.

Almost every debate I've listened to on Brexit, the Brexit voters almost to a one, harp to Britain becoming great again and free, as though it really ever was...... about us controlling our own laws etc. The reality is, we have always chosen which EU laws we wanted and happened to choose which ones to implement. As to the great part, I've said many times, it never was for 90% of people. I grew up in a typical working class family of 6 kids, in what would be deigned poverty today. We weren't hungry, but had very little otherwise. Up until about 1980, most people were too poor to travel, afford cars unless starting with very old ones and buying houses only took off mid 80's.

I agree that many European countries are basket cases. Spain has some real poverty again. I know a primary teacher in a very poor area near Murcia and she takes baskets of apples and oranges in to feed her kids as they have nothing. No state support once unemployed more than 6 or 12 months. The local state can't pay salaries of teachers, doctors or pharmacists.

The EU was a great dream and idea, but in reality, the cultural differences mean we are a union of about 5 very different cultures and the UK is not a populace with a want to mix well. France is it's closest neighbour, yet most English know nothing of French culture, language, politics or news.
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by Dominic »

Conoflex wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:04 pm In that case the remainers job is to make sure the remoaners concentrate their efforts making sure post Brexit Britain doesn't become a racist hell hole - not to try and stop the Brexit process itself surely ?

However whilst I know lots of Brexiteers who aren't racist, but I have still to meet a remainer who genuinely is accepting of the result- and that's not just because of the company I keep :lol:
How can people not accept the result? Everybody I know who voted remain accepts the result. We may not like it, but we have no choice but to accept it.
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

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Firefly wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:29 pm Interesting, are there no racist remainers then ?

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I am sure there are. That wasn't my point.
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by Conoflex »

"How can people not accept the result? Everybody I know who voted remain accepts the result. We may not like it, but we have no choice but to accept it"

That's good- perhaps you can tell that to Blair and Clegg etc. Clegg of course says he "accepts" the vote, but his idea of what it means has absolutely nothing to do with leaving the EU :roll:

I agree with jigward- Britain has never been naturally orientated towards European integration and would have most definitely rejected the Lisbon treaty with about a 70% rejection rate.

We are very enthusiastic about having a good working relationship with Europe, but the actual numbers pushing for more and more integration with Europe are very small minority - what the EU wants to become is not what the vast majority of Britons want and indeed their fellow European countrymen want either.

We keep on hearing we can't have the best bits of the EU without having the worst bits- that is an extraordinary admission. The worst bits are the idealistic creations of the EU themselves and they are taking precedent over the good bits to such an extent any rational person has to think seriously about the overall merits of the whole project.

It is the EU that has lost the plot, not the UK and Euroscepticism is on the rise throughout Europe. That is not populism and some sort of anti establishment fad as people are being told is the case by the incumbent power political elite , that is simply democracy in action.

Rising nationalism is just that, people's belief in their own right to self determination- and that is not racism
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

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Jimgward wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:27 pm Equally, I know some remainers who are racist, but unfortunately, since Farage, the King of racists, led the campaign, its no wonder people associate racism with Brexit.
I still fail to see what Nigel Farage said in the campaign that was racist...?
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by Conoflex »

I'm not racist and I have never considered Farage racist- he speaks lot of home truths mind you and speaking your mind on any immigration based problem invariably gets you branded a racist by certain sectors of society and the media .

The freedom of movement principle is a huge problem . It could work with a core group of states with similar interests and outlooks (even if they have different languages) but when you expand the EU to all sorts of states that are poorer than the core the result is a recipe for disaster. To be branded racist when commenting on the fallout from that folly is utter nonsense.

Peoples of all Eu states could move freely in Europe by simple visa free travel. Poorer EU countries can be made richer by freedom of movement of goods capital and services with in EU. Freedom of movement is a tool (like the Euro) designed to destroy national barriers and impose a political union and "cultural" integration on the peoples of Europe that they don't want .

It is about as well planned and controllable as dropping a bucket of marbles on a tiled floor and it goes without saying people are going to have objections to it- not because they are racist, but because the policy is unworkable and ultimately detrimental
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by kingfisher »

I googled "racism" and checked the first five dictionary definitions. I then got the entry for "Nigel Farage" on Wikipedia- moderately long, but worth reading. Based on this research, I agree with Cyprusgrump that he did not say anything "racist" in the campaign, nor indeed is he a "racist", although he is indisputably a patriot. He is married to a German woman and has two children who are also bilingual, and has German ancestry. On a lighter note, I was intrigued to learn that he shares Hitler's reputed monorchoidalism- they both have (or had) the misfortune to possess only one testicle. (not that that has anything to do with the topic!)
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by Jimgward »

Now I don't profess to fully understand this, but apparently this graph represents a really bad view of the UK economy heading downwards. Initial trade booms on a falling pound are expected. But this shows a gap between UK bonds and Sterling, which should not exceed 5%.


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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by cyprusgrump »

kingfisher wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:58 am I googled "racism" and checked the first five dictionary definitions. I then got the entry for "Nigel Farage" on Wikipedia- moderately long, but worth reading. Based on this research, I agree with Cyprusgrump that he did not say anything "racist" in the campaign, nor indeed is he a "racist", although he is indisputably a patriot. He is married to a German woman and has two children who are also bilingual, and has German ancestry. On a lighter note, I was intrigued to learn that he shares Hitler's reputed monorchoidalism- they both have (or had) the misfortune to possess only one testicle. (not that that has anything to do with the topic!)
Thanks for that...

We (sadly) live in an age where you can be arrested and charged with racist hate crime for merely publishing an opinion on FaceAche... Given the high profile that Nigel has it is inconceivable that he could make racist remarks without having the full force of the law down on him - which he clearly has not.

Sadly the left shout 'racist' so frequently that it has lost all meaning. If you consider it 'racist' to want to control immigration then yes sure, Nigel is a racist. But then so am I and most of the British public too...
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by cyprusgrump »

Jimgward wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:41 am Now I don't profess to fully understand this, but apparently this graph represents a really bad view of the UK economy heading downwards. Initial trade booms on a falling pound are expected. But this shows a gap between UK bonds and Sterling, which should not exceed 5%.
I can't read the detail of any axis on your graph - could you post a link to the original...?
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by trevnhil »

Cyprus Grump, what is FaceAche, and can you post a link to it please

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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by cyprusgrump »

trevnhil wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:37 pm Cyprus Grump, what is FaceAche, and can you post a link to it please

Trev..
Facebook...
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by Conoflex »

As Sterling falls bond yields will rise- if a currency is falling lenders will want more of it as interest.

The problem with quitting the EU is you get all the bad economic bits before you get the good bits. We have the uncertainty damaging investment whilst still having to pay into the EU pot to have our hands tied in trade deals and import tariffs

The British economy hasn't been in great shape for quite some time and to be honest the vote to leave could not have come at a worse time. Britain's budget deficit has proved to be extremely stubborn and wages have been stagnant for a long time (we are seeing the effects of all that with the current strikes). There are all sorts of signs looming that the world could be heading for trade wars and economic downturns

If Britain can generate real economic growth the real money supply increases and real wages start rising, negating he effects of any currency depreciation- but that may but some time off. That is why the decision to leave the EU should be implemented as soon as was possible- the advantages of having a devalued currency do not last forever

Germany has an undervalued currency in the Euro, so German imports are expensive, but because it turns many of those imports into high quality exports Germans are actually getting wealthier-the increased amount of money in circulation compensates for the disadvantages of the undervalued currency. Problem is for Germany is that because they do not distribute this wealth throughout the currency zone (as say the US does) they have ended up underwriting the rest of Europe's debts to the tune of trillions

The alternative of course is sticking with the EU, where growth rates are appalling and Europe as a whole is not keeping pace with the rest of the world. Not only is the Euro a constant drag on the Eurozone economy, the cost of either keeping it intact or dismantling it will be massive- the further we can remove ourselves from the consequences of all that the better

Britain needs a huge shake up - we are living beyond our means as a nation and as a group of consumers. Brexit may bring these problems to a head sooner than we like, but you can't put off the inevitable for ever.

Leaving the EU comes at a price, staying in the EU comes at a price. Leaving means the costs become more immediate, but ultimately I doubt any greater and possibly even less so
Last edited by Conoflex on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Brexit Plans are now being disclosed

Post by trevnhil »

Ah thanks, I use that all day :)

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