Hard or Soft.....

Whatever your political persuasion, defend your corner here. All we ask is that you voice YOUR opinion, rather than just post a link to a half-hour youtube video. Politics can get a bit lively, and if you prefer a less combative debate, please post in the Politics for Moderates section instead.
johnoddy

Hard or Soft.....

Post by johnoddy »

....Brexit, that is.
I’m wondering how members feel about the UK’s glorious exit from the dictatorship of the EU?
I’m sure there will be those Remoaners and leftie luvvies who hope for a “softer the better” type of exit and those with a bit more common sense who are looking for a “hard as nails” exit.
Personally I’m slightly in favour of a Hard Brexit, not that you could tell, but it would be interesting to read arguments for a Soft Brexit.
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panoscouse
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by panoscouse »

Well I thought that this was about eggs and Mrs Pano thought is was something completely different. I think you may get a better response if you post this in the politics section. ;)
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by Dominic »

In fairness to johnoddy, I only created the politics section about 8 minutes ago!

I have also created two other sections: religion and philosophy. If people use them for weightier matters it will keep the main section lighter.

Johnoddy, as this was posted before the politics section was added, I am happy to leave it here, despite me being a Remoaner. However, if you would prefer it in the Politics section I will be happy to move it.
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Lincoln
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by Lincoln »

Please move it to the POLITICAL section as we will get a lot of Flak from the ongoing arguments which will spoil the sight.
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johnoddy

Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by johnoddy »

lol...Dominic, I am more than happy for it to be re-sectioned, we wouldn't want a lot of flak spoiling the view.....now would we?
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by emgee »

With elections coming up soon in various parts of the EU, can't see it lasting much longer and we, the British are leaders as ever.

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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by Devil »

Best summarised with :D :D
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by Kili01 »

Well you all seem to agree, so not much to discuss!
However, I'm a remainer(please note spelling!) Just because I happen to disagree with the idea of a Brexit, I am not moaning!
I think that it is still too early to speculate on exactly what a brexit will mean for the country. In my view what matters is the economic and trade implications for the UK. The UK does not produce as much as it once did. It is not self sufficient in many food stuffs or raw materials and it also has to import gas and oil. Already some of the major banks are threatening to leave the UK in order to relocate to mainland and EU countries as much of their business is with Europe. Other big companies may also follow suit, if they wish to continue trading favourably within the EU.I have said all along patience is needed while the British Govt prepares for the Brexit. One thing which seems in short supply with some Brexiteers is that useful quality of patience. Dee
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by PhotoLady »

Hard Brexit vs Eggs - not really impressed with either of them if you want honesty.
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cyprusgrump
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by cyprusgrump »

There is no such thing as a 'soft' Brexit.

The vote was to leave the EU and if you like to label that as 'hard' then so be it.

But the vote was to leave the EU and all of the rules, regulations, free movement and trade restrictions associated with it.
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by PeteandSylvi »

Kili01 wrote: Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:22 pm Well you all seem to agree, so not much to discuss!
However, I'm a remainer(please note spelling!) Just because I happen to disagree with the idea of a Brexit, I am not moaning!
I think that it is still too early to speculate on exactly what a brexit will mean for the country. In my view what matters is the economic and trade implications for the UK. The UK does not produce as much as it once did. It is not self sufficient in many food stuffs or raw materials and it also has to import gas and oil. Already some of the major banks are threatening to leave the UK in order to relocate to mainland and EU countries as much of their business is with Europe. Other big companies may also follow suit, if they wish to continue trading favourably within the EU.I have said all along patience is needed while the British Govt prepares for the Brexit. One thing which seems in short supply with some Brexiteers is that useful quality of patience. Dee
I'm relieved to hear there is a Remainer who is not moaning. I'm sick of the complaining and insults hurled at the people who voted to Exit by people who should be exercising their intelligence instead.

I also agree that it is economic and trade that is the important thing. Let us not forget that is what Britain originally joined the EEC for, not the monolith of corruption and dictatorship it has become.

However the fact that Britain does not produce as much as it did and is not self-sufficent need not be seen as a negative for that is what trading is about. Most European countries import gas and oil as does the US and many others. The important thing to remember is that Britain, at the time of the vote, was the No. 2 economy in the EU and the No. 5 in the world. That power can and should be maintained.

I don't recall reading that some major banks were to quit the UK. What I did read was that some major banks might consider moving their Head Offices to a country within the EU to comply with EU trading requirements. That's a very different event and the level of trade within the UK would remain.

As an Exiteer I am not troubled by the incorrectly perceived amount of time the process is taking. I am glad that the government is working on this vast task thoroughly and not leaping in head first without considering consequences and reactions. I not concerned that I can't read a thorough cohesive exit plan yet as this would expose the UK's hand to the EU prematurely. Far more enjoyable is the reaction growing in some countries against the EU. I'll even accept this being at the hands of the far right but only for a limited period as they can be voted out again! However the concept of the existing form of the EU crumbling is delightful.

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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by PW in Polemi »

As a British citizen who was not entitled to vote so therefore had no say in the matter, I'm intrigued as to why so many Brits living in Europe voted for Britain to leave Europe...
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by cyprusgrump »

PW in Polemi wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:45 am As a British citizen who was not entitled to vote so therefore had no say in the matter, I'm intrigued as to why so many Brits living in Europe voted for Britain to leave Europe...
Quite simply, we love Europe but loathe the EU...

...it seems unlikely that the UK will be separating herself from Europe in the foreseeable future.
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by Dominic »

Speaking as a remainer, I was initially surprised at how many expats favoured Brexit. However, I found that the expats actually had joined up reasons for wanting to leave. In the UK, the sensible reasons for leaving were drowned out by bigotry. I will never be pro Brexit but have full respect for anybody who demonstrates that they have actually thought about the issues rather than just liked some internet meme.
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by Jimgward »

I voted remain. Mainly as I knew we were being lied to about £350m a week (£180m is true cost) and it going to the NHS :?

Also, I was concerned that an element (not insignificant) saw it as a vote against immigration and that stirred up anti-racial feelings, exasperated by old Nigel, the bigot...

I also disagreed with such an important vote only needing 50% of the voters. Most referendums of this importance, normally ask for 50% of eligible voters.

My main gripe, however, is about the rubbish about bringing back control.... as if we didn't already have mainly control... and the return to "Great" Britain.... as I'm old enough to know it was only great for the minority... just as our "Empire" was really nothing to be proud of... Imperialist values didn't do anything for those we exploited!

However, I accept that we have gone to the point where we are exiting. As a result, the pound has lost 15%, GDP is down (incidentally already costing over 5 years EU cost) and I believe we need to negotiate a release, rather than bulldozed exit. Not everything about the EU ever was bad and not all was good... however, with careful negotiation, we might benefit from choosing to keep some good things.... :ugeek:
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by Kili01 »

It remains to be seen once Article 50 to start the brexit for real, is triggered. How well will a comparitively small nation with ideas to make their brexit tailor made to suit them, actually get on? It must be tough trying to negotiate such a deal with 27 other countries, all with different ideas! How sympathetic of our plans will they be when Britain starts trying to negotiate this deal?
If the deal reached with the UK by the EU looks too generous there is a risk that several other countries will be tempted to follow suit ? Thus risking the stability of the EU as we know it,

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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by Firefly »

Dee

I don't think that they will be sympathetic at all, why make it look easy to other countries considering a referendum. No If France and Germany have their way, which they will, I think they will make it as difficult as possible.

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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by cyprusgrump »

We should remember that the UK isn't a 'comparatively small nation', it has the fifth largest economy in thew world, a member of the G20, the G8, a permanent member of the UN Security council and the fastest growing economy in Europe...

Also, the UK is a member of the WTO as are all the other EU members which allows us to trade with them under WTO rules...

I think WTO rules allow tariffs up to 5%?

0% falls in the category of 'up to 5%' so we would be able to say to Germany, 'you can ship all of your cars, washing machines, dishwashers, etc. to the UK tariff free if you wish. Or would you like to play hardball and prevent the UK from shipping to Germany tariff free...?'

I wonder what they would say...?
keving
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by keving »

Too much detail from someone who comes across as an "expert".

We all know what we think of experts in this post truth world
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Re: Hard or Soft.....

Post by cyprusgrump »

keving wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:02 pm Too much detail from someone who comes across as an "expert".

We all know what we think of experts in this post truth world
Indeed...

Comfort yourself with the 'truth' from the BBC, Sky, The Guardian and The Independent... ;)
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