Permanent Partition?

[geoffreys]

Now that the Cyprus re-unification talks have closed with no agreement, can we look forward to the 2-State solution with permanent partition?
Geoff.

[Dominic]

That would be far, far worse than the current situatioin.

[geoffreys]

That would be far, far worse than the current situatioin.

I don't see it that way, at least then everyone would know where they stand and could get on with their lives.
The alternative would seem to me to be another 43 years of the current mess.
So why do YOU think permanent partition would be so bad Dominic?
Geoff.

[Dominic]

Partitions create problems. They don't solve them.

[geoffreys]

Partitions create problems. They don't solve them.

We will have to agree to disagree Dominic.
The so called 2-State solution is just that, 2 states; not so much partition actually.
Then the UN could all leave and be deployed somewhere else where they are really needed and where they could save lives, e.g. in Syria.
The thought of 43 years more of endless talks and arguments that get nowhere beggars belief.
Geoff.

[jeba]

Partitions create problems. They don't solve them.

At least a proper partition (with recognition of the North as a state) would allow us to e. g. get easier insurance cover, make travel (including air-travel) easier etc.

[Jimgward]

Partitions create problems. They don't solve them.

I we look to the mess created by the UK, in Ireland, I think that tells us that partition never works.

[Jimgward]

If Cyprus is partitioned, how would agreements on resources, like Gas, found off the south of Cyprus occur?

In a permanent partition, all that would belong to Cyprus

[WHL]

Now that the Cyprus re-unification talks have closed with no agreement, can we look forward to the 2-State solution with permanent partition?
Geoff.

This sums you up in a nut shell....can we look forward to a 2 state solution. ..anyone with half a brain cell would ask , why after forty years, only one country, namely the Invader, has recognized the north?..the north will never be Internationally recognized without an agreement...so lets just say for Geoffreys happiness, Turkey adds the north as another of its provinces ...what would happen? all crossings would be closed...thousands of Turkish Cypriots currently working in the ROC will be unemployed, all Turkish Cypriots who currently use the ROC hospitals free of charge will be denied this..and Geoffrey, you wont be able to cross over to your house in the north...Still happy about this.

[WHL]

[

WHL, I don't know if English is your first language but Geoffs statement. "Can we look forward to a 2 State Solution" is not a statement of intent, it a statement of what the future might bring...looking forward. Whatever the rhetoric, on both sides, the ROC position, I believe, is a return to pre 1974, which will never happen, there is simply too much history between the GC and TC population. Just remember why the Turkish invaded, which considering the situation at the time, they had every right to..of course once the situation had stabilised they should have left, they didn't and they won't.
[/quote]
[/quote]


Il ignore your sarcasm...not called for, but Ive followed Geoffreys posts regards the Cyprus problem over many forums, and he is pro division, its well documented... If you know the History of Cyprus you would know that Turkeys invasion was a culmination of many years of civil strife on the island, you would also know that everybody, yes Britain included are as guilty as each other, no one has clean hands in their dealings in Cyprus, Cyprus has agreed to a federal solution, so how is that going back to pre 74? ...the talks failed because Turkey insists on keeping her troops here on Cyprus after a solution, why, when if there was trouble again, Turkey could have troops on the ground in half an hour.... clearly they dont want a solution, a fair solution would be a win win for everyone living here....

[geoffreys]

Now that the Cyprus re-unification talks have closed with no agreement, can we look forward to the 2-State solution with permanent partition?
Geoff.

This sums you up in a nut shell....can we look forward to a 2 state solution. ..anyone with half a brain cell would ask , why after forty years, only one country, namely the Invader, has recognized the north?..the north will never be Internationally recognized without an agreement...so lets just say for Geoffreys happiness, Turkey adds the north as another of its provinces ...what would happen? all crossings would be closed...thousands of Turkish Cypriots currently working in the ROC will be unemployed, all Turkish Cypriots who currently use the ROC hospitals free of charge will be denied this..and Geoffrey, you wont be able to cross over to your house in the north...Still happy about this.

My question was do you (the other forum members in other words) think it will end up in a 2-state solution?
I think it will - for better or worse. I was NOT asking if it would be better or worse in that situation.
Why are you suggesting the Greek side would close the crossing points? The Turkish side won't, it was they who first opened them up (Mr Denktash, the lawyer turned Politician who said the only true Cypriots were the donkeys up at the Karpas).
Geoff.

[WHL]

Hudswell
Well if we are going to play silly games, can I ask you if English is your first language ?,
Having lived here for thirty years, and having both T/G Cypriot friends, I dont take sides, I heard the History from all sides, I respectfully put it to you, that it is you who needs to take the blinkers off and stop viewing it from an ex military position on basically what youve been taught to think.

[WHL]

Now that the Cyprus re-unification talks have closed with no agreement, can we look forward to the 2-State solution with permanent partition?
Geoff.

This sums you up in a nut shell....can we look forward to a 2 state solution. ..anyone with half a brain cell would ask , why after forty years, only one country, namely the Invader, has recognized the north?..the north will never be Internationally recognized without an agreement...so lets just say for Geoffreys happiness, Turkey adds the north as another of its provinces ...what would happen? all crossings would be closed...thousands of Turkish Cypriots currently working in the ROC will be unemployed, all Turkish Cypriots who currently use the ROC hospitals free of charge will be denied this..and Geoffrey, you wont be able to cross over to your house in the north...Still happy about this.

My question was do you (the other forum members in other words) think it will end up in a 2-state solution?
I think it will - for better or worse. I was NOT asking if it would be better or worse in that situation.
Why are you suggesting the Greek side would close the crossing points? The Turkish side won't, it was they who first opened them up (Mr Denktash, the lawyer turned Politician who said the only true Cypriots were the donkeys up at the Karpas).
Geoff.

Denktash the guy who ordered his terrorist group to place bombs in Turkish Cypriot venues, blowing up his own people so he could then blame the Greek Cypriot,He confessed to this on live TV.... He only opened the crossing up because a Turkish Cypriot Doctor was going to take him to the European court.
You really think that Cyprus would allow anyone to cross into a province of Turkey, you really think that if Turkey annexed the north, it would be carry on as if nothing happened...

[geoffreys]

Denktash the guy who ordered his terrorist group to place bombs in Turkish Cypriot venues, blowing up his own people so he could then blame the Greek Cypriot,He confessed to this on live TV.... He only opened the crossing up because a Turkish Cypriot Doctor was going to take him to the European court.
You really think that Cyprus would allow anyone to cross into a province of Turkey, you really think that if Turkey annexed the north, it would be carry on as if nothing happened...
[/quote]

Well actually I do because it would be in their interests to keep the crossing points open, both economically and politically.
Why do you think, and what is your evidence if you do think, the Greek side would act unilaterally and close them?
Incidentally before the crossing points were opened in 2004 it was possible to cross over into the "north" if you were British.
Either Ledra Palace crossing or Pyla. We used Pyla - we had a UK plated car and UK passports. So as far as visiting our property in Famagusta we are not worried. A property I might add that has always been TC owned before we bought it.
As far as Denktash is concerned there was blood on the hands of leaders on both sides.
Geoff.
P.S. Regards my colloquial English, for "can we look forward" read "can we expect"

[Poppy]

I really don't think that time will heal. As many of you know we now live back in the UK and have joined the local camera club. One of the members is Cypriot who, with her Scottish husband divides her time between here and Cyprus. She is probably mid 60's and was born in the Famagusta area and still to this day cannot bear to speak of her home village. She has visited twice, once because her son, born and raised in the UK, wanted to see where she had been raised but she was not allowed to enter many places and is still very bitter indeed. She had wanted to visit the garden of the house where she was raised and technically is still owned by her family but was not allowed so she sneaked in and took loads of oranges off the trees and put them in their car and it was only as they were driving away and her temper had subsided did she wonder what she was going to do with hundreds of oranges! She told me that her neighbours had bags given to them. She has even asked my husband that he does not show any of his pictures of the North at the Club which he has agreed to of course. So all these years later and she still gets upset and bitter !

[Firefly]

My neighbour in Cyprus, was from the north of the island, when he visited his property there once, he was devastated by the way that the Christian churches had been defiled, he couldn't understand why when the Minarets had been protected in the south, the Turks had desecrated the churches.

Jackie

[WHL]

Hudswell
Well if we are going to play silly games, can I ask you if English is your first language ?,
Having lived here for thirty years, and having both T/G Cypriot friends, I dont take sides, I heard the History from all sides, I respectfully put it to you, that it is you who needs to take the blinkers off and stop viewing it from an ex military position on basically what youve been taught to think.

WHL, I suggest you take,the huge chip off your shoulder, and stop behaving like a petulant child. Having lived here for 3O years I would think you have had time to come to a resonable conclusion in regard to the problem here in Cyprus..and the " Turkish won't redeploy their Military" is a factor but certainly not the only stumbling block in solving the issues at stake here. I certainly do not take an "ex military position" in regard to the situation in Cyprus...and neither do I rely on the Turkish, Greek, GC or TC version of events....There is still an underlying distrust, I won't say hatred because that is probably too strong, but that distrust is perpetuated in the political rethoric and Educational systems on both sides..Time will heal the "problem" but only if both sides admit their fault and flaws and allow future generations to move on.

So unless you agree with Hudswells position on Cyprus, he accuses you of having a chip on your shoulder....how Pathetic...how old are you

[WHL]

You don't have to agree, just partake in some intelligent discussion...

Try doing it yourself for a change

[WHL]

And your intelligent and resonable discussion is?

To ignore wind up merchant trolls

[geoffreys]

And your intelligent and resonable discussion is?

To ignore wind up merchant trolls

But you don't!!?? If you don't like Hudswell (or anyone else on the forum) just mark them as "foes" then you won't see their posts.
Hudswell made some very good and valid points; if you disagree with those put up strong counter arguments.
As we say in Yorkshire: "put up or shut up".
Geoff.