UK PM

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Devil
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Re: UK PM

Post by Devil »

Jim B wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:13 am that's a Conservative party supporters first line of defence, call anyone who is critical of the party an extreme left winger.
When I was young and carefree, I supported the Conservative party, mainly because my parents did and they couldn't do wrong, could they? However, some 60 or 70 years ago, I started to think and I came to realise, over time, that there were a number of policies that became stumbling blocks. One of my thoughts was the Labour Party and I realised that, despite the introduction of the National Health Service and National Insurance, which I thought were great, I became aware that there were a number of points that I couldn't agree with. They were too radical. The Social Democratic Party was insufficiently strong to be really influential, as were the Whigs, the two of them merging in the 1980s to form the Lib Dems. This party was still rather on the weak side to be very influential and it seems to exist as a kind of buffer zone between the extremes of the two main parties.

Yes, I am very critical of both the Conservative and Labour parties but I am neither an extreme left winger nor an extreme right-winger and anybody who accuses those who are critical of any UK party as being extreme needs to examine the effect on countries which have been extreme in either direction. I might make a slight exception to this last sentence, regarding the extreme Presbyterians in Northern Ireland.
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Dominic
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Re: UK PM

Post by Dominic »

I hate the way people refer to the Thatcher government as "Far right". This is utter nonsense and insulting. I was no fan of the woman but that sort of statement is ridiculous.
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PhotoLady
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Re: UK PM

Post by PhotoLady »

The whole bloody Government is corrupt:
https://goodlawproject.org/news/ministe ... contracts/
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Re: UK PM

Post by Jim B »

Dominic wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:16 pm I hate the way people refer to the Thatcher government as "Far right". This is utter nonsense and insulting. I was no fan of the woman but that sort of statement is ridiculous.
I may be wrong but I don't think you're old enough to have actually had experience of her and her government. Her and the police, like facists usually are hand in glove with each other during the Miners Strike, the Battle of Orgreave being a case in point.
It's well worth a read and doesn't show the police in a very good light, a bit like Hillsborough.
I was a construction worker and during that period I was working up in Scotland at a place called Moss Moran in Fyfe, a massive Ethylene Plant with thousands of workers. We used to drive home every weekend and were stopped, harassed and threatened by the police as they took it upon themselves to stop anyone they thought were Flying Pickets even though it is illegal to do so. Several of our fellow workers were arrested because they wouldn't turn around.
Now to me things like that only happen in Polce States, I remember similar things happening in Liverpool and during the Poll Tax Riots.
Now you may believe she wasn't far right wing but quite alot of us believe she was.
Last edited by Jim B on Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Devil
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Re: UK PM

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Dominic wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:16 pm I hate the way people refer to the Thatcher government as "Far right". This is utter nonsense and insulting. I was no fan of the woman but that sort of statement is ridiculous.
I agree, but at that time, the opposite side was headed by the left Corbyn and he was possibly further left than Maggie was to the right! I have an idea: someone should make a chart from L 100 – R 100 and put on the names of leading politicians. I don't really know who would fill the extremes but let's say Stalin would come out at L 95 and Mussolini at R 95. Note that I do not put Hitler at R 95 but probably somewhere around R 75 because he also had a few left-wing ideas. Very difficult, indeed, to place any politician anywhere on the grounds of "... so much good in the worst of us ..."
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Re: UK PM

Post by MacManiac »

I first voted Conservative in 1970 as a young subaltern in the army. I voted Conservative all the way till 2019. I voted Remain in the referendum. I pledged my loyalty to the crown in 1969. I could not, in all conscience, ever vote again for the Conservative party and my oath to the crown (once Charles becomes king) is in severe doubt. Both of these issues cause my conscience to lead me to enormous conflict and I hate the path my country has taken.
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Re: UK PM

Post by Jim B »

PhotoLady wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:58 pm The whole bloody Government is corrupt:
https://goodlawproject.org/news/ministe ... contracts/
PhotoLady

I see you're another extreme left winger for daring to mention the rampant corruption,

I had read this article though I doubt many others will bother here as it might make Johnsons halo slip a bit. There was an article in the Guardian about an investigation of payments of 777 million pounds for PPE to government cronies in Sky News Press Review who just glossed over it and went on to more important subjects like the Wagatha Saga.
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Re: UK PM

Post by Jim B »

MacManiac wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:07 pm I first voted Conservative in 1970 as a young subaltern in the army. I voted Conservative all the way till 2019. I voted Remain in the referendum. I pledged my loyalty to the crown in 1969. I could not, in all conscience, ever vote again for the Conservative party and my oath to the crown (once Charles becomes king) is in severe doubt. Both of these issues cause my conscience to lead me to enormous conflict and I hate the path my country has taken.
I found your post very moving, being honourable or having principles appears to have gone out of fashion and many appear to be quite happy to accept this of our politicians.
So very sad.
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Devil
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Re: UK PM

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MacManiac wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:07 pm ... Both of these issues cause my conscience to lead me to enormous conflict and I hate the path my country has taken.
I do not have these qualms. When I went into the army in 1951, I was a true blooded conservative by inheritance. Having lived with my fellow soldiers (signalmen) for over 2 1/2 years including a short term on active service, I was faced with the fact that men are not created equal and this meant my conservatism was becoming wobbly. After that, it gradually moved to the left but never became radical. In 1963, I left Britain partly because Harold Wilson, in his manifesto, promised that I would have to become a trade unionist which I deemed unsuitable and conflictual with my status as a professional Chartered Engineer.

Paradoxically, for professional reasons, I ended up in that most conservative country in Europe, Switzerland. There, I discovered over time that, although the country is conservative with a little C, it's actually an extremely liberal confederation of 20-odd independent states, each with different levels of political founding, ranging from Geneva to about four states in the centre of the country. I lived in the Canton of Vaud, which was reasonably liberal. This took me a considerable way to the left wing which fitted into my thinking. Still as a British citizen, I was the official delegate of the Swiss Confederation to a UNEP committee (for my work there, I received a high-level award).

I feel no conflict between the work I did for Switzerland for 20-odd years and my political thoughts. Today, even though I left Switzerland 25 years ago, to live in Cyprus (where I was in the army from 1952 to 1953), I class myself more or less as moderately left wing (which would have shocked my parents to the core!).

I see no conflict between political views and the holder's background
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Re: UK PM

Post by PhotoLady »

I've voted Labour for as long as I can remember and also a party member for several years.
Unfortunately, I cannot get behind Starmer and unhappy with recent happenings so have cancelled my membership.

I've been following The Good Law Project with interest and that's now where my previous membership funding has been directed.
Jim B wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:24 pm
PhotoLady

I see you're another extreme left winger for daring to mention the rampant corruption,

I had read this article though I doubt many others will bother here as it might make Johnsons halo slip a bit. There was an article in the Guardian about an investigation of payments of 777 million pounds for PPE to government cronies in Sky News Press Review who just glossed over it and went on to more important subjects like the Wagatha Saga.
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Re: UK PM

Post by Jim B »



I thought this may interest one or two people.
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Re: UK PM

Post by Jimgward »

I believe that anyone who can support this present Tory Government is either ill-informed, incredibly biased or plain stupid.

Johnson was the worst prime minister this country has had in living memory. He got nothing done.

Brexit has been a shambles and he hadn't even read the NI Protocol and lied to the stupid group of DUP MPs...

The Covid situation, he was 6 weeks late in locking down, transferred patients into care homes, with covid and lied that they had been tested (or his Health Secretary did with his knowledge). He and his government cost at least 30,000 lives.

He lied continually to parliament and the media. Such as being on death's door from covid....

His party was so corrupt, they did it in plain sight, under the emergency powers, giving billions in contracts to friendly companies of the Tory Party.
Spent £39bn with Serco, on Test and Trace, which was a shambles. Their CEO is the brother of a former Try Minister and grandson of Churchill.

We were quick with the Vaccinations, due to signing off with less checks than other countries. We ended up 3 weeks ahead and within 2 months were overtaken. We gambled, it paid off initially and within weeks was of no consequence.

The NHS is a disaster. There are fewer police, teachers, nurses, doctors....

Levelling Up was actually going the wrong way. Tory Marginals were given 10X the funding as their Labour neighbours.

The HS2 is a disaster. The Hospitals weren't built. The group of ministers are appalling Chosen to have no real fight against Johnson. People like Dorris, Patel, Truss, Raab, Schapps.... in fact, almost all of them. Hopeless and now we will get Truss as PM - an absolute disaster waiting to happen.

Meanwhile, the country is heading for a National Strike. Teachers' wages are 18% behind their level in 2008. They are offered 2%.The same applies across all public sector. Yet Truss tries to bring in a policy, where we cut their wages further!
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Re: UK PM

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We will get Truss because the Tory party won't accept a new PM with the wrong colour skin.

Sunak is by far the better of the two, to lead.
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Re: UK PM

Post by Jim B »

Jimward
Everything you wrote is spot on, the only Minister as far as I can see who comes out of this mess in the UK with any credibility is Ben Wallace the Defence Minister who has generally done a good job under very difficult circumstances.
It looks like the country will be saddled with another liar for PM .

Photolady, you got it in one.
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Re: UK PM

Post by WHL »

I always voted conservative as i believed , in working hard and impoving your lot , I left school at 15 did every job going build up a business of retail shops, of which I'm still involved with, I stopped voting conservative when I saw what that nasty piece of work Thatcher, was doing to the country,
Over the years ive build up a hatred for most politicians, the majority are just self serving , get what I can out of the system,
You can count on your little finger the ones with any principles.
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