A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by Dominic »

If your body, with the help of the vaccine, fights off the virus, you will be carrying the virus for a shorter time than if you didn't have the vaccine. So to say the vaccine has no effect on transmitting the virus is simply not true.

I want to pull at another point of the film. The film stated that without vaccines, the virus is in no pressure to mutate. So how did the UK and Brazil mutations arise, given that they have been around since before the vaccines were available?
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by Firefly »

My mind is made up, you believe what you like.

End of.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by grb »

"How did the UK and Brazil mutations arise?" I'm no scientist, but if you google Astra Zeneca Phase Three control trials, you will see that the main trial sites were England, South Africa and Brazil. It may be pure coincidence, but has anyone seen a discussion of this on the main stream media?
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by jeba »

sadie62 wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:56 pm Firefly - The vaccine does not stop you from catching the virus nor does it stop you from transmitting the virus.
It may not be guaranteed to stop you from transmitting the virus but it will greatly reduce the odds. And it's plausible to assume that if you infect someone they will likely have a lower risk of becoming severely ill because your virus load will be lower and there is a correlation between the amount of virus particles you get infected with and the risk of becoming severely ill.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

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grb wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:25 pm "How did the UK and Brazil mutations arise?" I'm no scientist, but if you google Astra Zeneca Phase Three control trials, you will see that the main trial sites were England, South Africa and Brazil. It may be pure coincidence, but has anyone seen a discussion of this on the main stream media?
Mutations were popping up in January / February 2020.

https://www.who.int/csr/don/31-december ... riants/en/

A variant of SARS-CoV-2 with a D614G substitution in the gene encoding the spike protein emerged in late January or early February 2020. Over a period of several months, the D614G mutation replaced the initial SARS-CoV-2 strain identified in China and by June 2020 became the dominant form of the virus circulating globally. Studies in human respiratory cells and in animal models demonstrated that compared to the initial virus strain, the strain with the D614G substitution has increased infectivity and transmission. The SARS-CoV-2 virus with the D614G substitution does not cause more severe illness or alter the effectiveness of existing laboratory diagnostics, therapeutics, vaccines, or public health preventive measures.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by living the dream »

without a doubt sadie63 is lady libra - You don't have to take the vaccine if you don't want however why should you be allowed to interact with others who have had the common sense to take the vaccine. As many experts have said we will have to learn to live with this for years to come and just like the `flu `jab booster cover jabs will no doubt be needed. its ignorant people such as yourself that will prolong this for everybody.

As a pilot I would not want you on any aircraft I was flying as we have a duty of care to all our passengers safety and wellbeing, and`i think you will find the vast majority of aircrew feel the same. Like many sectors it is the discretion of an airline to allow passengers to fly, it is not a god given right or a legal right. One of my friends currently flies for a large corporate jet provider and they will not take any passenger who has not provided a negative test and from what he said last week it will soon be only vaccinated passengers as a dozen aircrew over the last 8 months have come down with covid, 5 cases which were directly linked to charters.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

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I just had a look and she isn't denying the fact. I see she is still bleating that I tried to put censor her:

"I see censorship of the truth on a grand scale. This is an open forum and we can all express our views. The moving of my post was another form of 'censorship'.....The site owner didn't agree, hence he moved it to a place where it was likely not to be viewed...that's censorship"

I take accusations like that very seriously. Any more crap like that and you will be booted. Your thread will remain, so you can't whinge about being censored. But I don't have to put up with that.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by living the dream »

Just give her the big boot, people like sadie63 are dangerous, spreading mis-information & spouting utter tripe. My sister in law's sister was an antivaxer and talked complete and utter nonsense, right up to the point her daughter was taken in to hospital with Covid. Although she had a bad few weeks, she has now completely recovered and mother is now constantly scanning swiftqueue to get her jab appointment - a dose of reality soon brought her to her senses
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by jeba »

sadie62 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:36 am And it is also perfectly fine for those who wish not to have the vaccine to do so without discrimination.
No! Your right of not being discriminated against ends where the rights of others to not be unnecessarily exposed to the risk of infection starts!
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by Dominic »

sadie62 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:36 am Having looked back at my original post, I see nothing wrong with the content. I was merely expressing an alternative viewpoint to the covid pandemic by a prominent scientist who is absolutely not against vaccines, but rather believes it is dangerous to mass vaccinate in the midst of a pandemic.
Firstly I was criticized for the post possibly not being too clear, then when I rectified that and edited it to make it read clearer, then I was criticized by 'galexinder for the editing.
Dominic did watch the full video and acknowledge that it was worth viewing and that the guy was not a nutter, which he certainly is not.
Then the post moves completely away from the original topic and focuses attention to a few members suggesting I should not be allowed to fly or enter other businesses and according to 'living the dream' shouldn't even be allowed to interact with others because I have not had the vaccine. And also calls me ignorant and suggests I should be 'given the boot'. Now if that isn't bullying then I don't know what is
We all have our own views and ideas and that is perfectly fine, the world would be less interesting if we were all the same. And it is also perfectly fine for those who wish not to have the vaccine to do so without discrimination. You cannot presume someone is ignorant or thoughtless for not having the vaccine, nor should you even presume you know their full reasons for not doing so. And if anyone has ever seen the result of life changing consequences of an adverse vaccine reaction it may then make them stop and think.
You could apply the same logic to seat-belt wearing. Very rarely, there will be a circumstance where not wearing one will have saved somebody's life. However, the amount of lives saved by people wearing them, in all other circumstances, far outweighs that. So we all wear our seatbelts, unless we are idiots.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by galexinda »

 galexinda » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:58 pm
Not going to keep up with this as the original post has been edited three times already so my earlier comment is already probably invalid as my comment was written in response to what I read earlier - 'galexinda » Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:08 am'

'Last edited by sadie62 on Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:21 am, edited 3 times in total'.
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sadie62 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:18 pm
galexinder
who's asking you to comment?
What a ridiculous thing to say, have you never edited a post?
Have you never miss-spelt a word and gone back in to correct it
I wouldn't dream of checking how many times someone has edited their post and then make a comment
===========================================================================================================
 sadie62 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:36 am
Having looked back at my original post, I see nothing wrong with the content. I was merely expressing an alternative viewpoint to the covid pandemic by a prominent scientist who is absolutely not against vaccines, but rather believes it is dangerous to mass vaccinate in the midst of a pandemic.
Firstly I was criticized for the post possibly not being too clear, then when I rectified that and edited it to make it read clearer, then I was criticized by 'galexinder for the editing.
==========================================================================================================
Nothing to do with editing to correct ‘mis-spelling’ – you altered the content of the original post.

Which, apart from the fact you cannot get my user name right, therefore leaves me to conclude any of your other comments may be unreliable.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by Dominic »

sadie62 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:22 am
This is my last comment on this thread because the comments being made are not a discussion about the contents of the post - that would have been very interesting - instead they are about my decision not to have the vaccine for which I am being heavily criticized. I didn't post the thread for a debate on my decision to have or not have the vaccine, it was supposed to be a debate on the video I posted
If this is the case, why have you refused to answer my remark about the hospitals already being full?
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by living the dream »

My personal opinion is that people refusing to take the vaccine is purely at their own discretion - Fine don't take it and leave yourself at risk of infection

To add to Dom's question to Sadie62 My relative through marriage who I mentioned in a previous post soon changed her tune when her daughter was on a stretcher in a corridor for nearly 7 hours whilst a place in the Covid ICU ward was found. Hospitals have been at bursting point during most of this pandemic and to say anything different is complete and utter nonsense.

For the rest of us that are prepared to follow the guidance in order to return to some normality such as going to a restaurant, a bar, having a weekend away or getting on a plane to go on holiday a covid passport and a couple of jabs is a small price to pay.

Sadie62 seems to be looking forward to court challenges by Anti-Vaxers who may not be able to join in the above things mentioned because there may be Covid Passports required - Im quite happy to have a covid passport it if means my life can return to some normality and I can return to my normal day job. I might add that there are many African Countries that require a Yellow Fever Jab in order to enter the country and many other countries where a Yellow Fever Jab is recommended before travel - never seen Anti Vaxers moaning about that. During my career I have flown in to India & Goa on numerous occasions with layovers and as a result I have had to have shots for Hepatitis A, Tetanus and Typhoid along with Malaria Tablets just the same as my passengers and again I have never once heard of Anti Vaxers moaning about that.

Most of these Anti Vaxers parents made the decision to protect them with the MMR Jab as a child to help with their immunisations against MMR so to moan about having a jab for Covid to further protect them now in adulthood seems ridiculous.
Last edited by living the dream on Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by WHL »

living the dream wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:05 pm My personal opinion is that people refusing to take the vaccine is purely at their own discretion - Fine don't take it and leave yourself at risk of infection -if I had my way Anti Vaxers who refuse to take the vaccine should then have all medically related covid illness treatment withdrawn as well, a bit harsh I know but why should Anti Vaxers be treated for covid should they contract Covid when they knowingly putting themselves and others at risk.

To add to Dom's question to Sadie62 My relative through marriage who I mentioned in a previous post soon changed her tune when her daughter was on a stretcher in a corridor for nearly 7 hours whilst a place in the Covid ICU ward was found. Hospitals have been at bursting point during most of this pandemic and to say anything different is complete and utter nonsense.

For the rest of us that are prepared to follow the guidance in order to return to some normality such as going to a restaurant, a bar, having a weekend away or getting on a plane to go on holiday a covid passport and a couple of jabs is a small price to pay.

Sadie62 seems to be looking forward to court challenges by Anti-Vaxers who may not be able to join in the above things mentioned because there may be Covid Passports required - Im quite happy to have a covid passport it if means my life can return to some normality and I can return to my normal day job. I might add that there are many African Countries that require a Yellow Fever Jab in order to enter the country and many other countries where a Yellow Fever Jab is recommended before travel - never seen Anti Vaxers moaning about that. During my career I have flown in to India & Goa on numerous occasions with layovers and as a result I have had to have shots for Hepatitis A, Tetanus and Typhoid along with Malaria Tablets just the same as my passengers and again I have never once heard of Anti Vaxers moaning about that.

Most of these Anti Vaxers parents made the decision to protect them with the MMR Jab as a child to help with their immunisations against MMR so to moan about having a jab for Covid to further protect them now in adulthood seems ridiculous.
-if I had my way Anti Vaxers who refuse to take the vaccine should then have all medically related covid illness treatment withdrawn as well, a bit harsh I know but why should Anti Vaxers be treated for covid should they contract Covid when they knowingly putting themselves and others at risk.


Im not anti having the jab, but if you seriously mean what you post, then it would follow you would stop cancer treatment for smokers, Accident treatment for people not wearing seatbelts, etc etc?
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by living the dream »

For Sadie62 and other Anti Vaxers - Discrimination comes under 10 different headings (according to Google), none of which cover rights to enter private premises, private companies offering transportation, private facilities of any nature. Discrimination -Definitely NOT if my understanding of the above is correct. It would only be classed as discrimination if you had a medical exemption from not having the vaccine and was not welcome to utilise said business facilities. If I am wrong with this post and I am not saying my accuracy is 100% then please feel free to pull me up.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by living the dream »

WHL - I still smoke the odd cigarette outside my house in the open air and generally not in public, my odd cigarette is not about to immediately infect others with a contagious disease, likewise if I decide not to wear a seatbelt it is not affecting others only myself - however I do understand where you are coming from and to be fair I do agree with your sentiments - as I said it is a personal view and given the relevance of your post in its context I will remove that part of my post.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by galexinda »

Sadie 62- if you dish out criticism then you should be able to respond in an adult way if you deem someone is criticising you rather than digging yourself a deeper hole.

Whether you have decided to have the vaccine or not has nothing to do with my comment about your editing techniques. So why do you feel the need to keep on mentioning it?

By the way, I am not being petty, but I am being particular.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by Devil »

Those who refuse the vaccine for whatever reason other than purely medical are selfish bar-stewards, probably propagating the disease. Full stop.
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Re: A Coming Covid Catastrophe - mass vaccination

Post by jeba »

sadie62 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:22 am Jeba

I don't know if you watched in full the video I posted in this thread.
I watched the first 45 min or so. After that I had run out of patience. Not only is he presenting the facts in a distorted way (e.g. "antibodies are suppressing cellular immunity" when in fact they are stimulating it), he is also factually wrong on several accounts. E.g. when he claims that the problem of immune escape isn´t being considered. Not only is it considered among specialists but it has even been discussed broadly in public interviews and podcasts by e.g. Drosten (the guy who developed the first covid test and head virologist of Berlin´s Charité) or Kekulé (head virologist/epidemiologist of a German university). The thing is though that their answer to the problem is the exact opposite: let´s hurry up vaccinating so that the virus has as little time as possible to escape our immune response. He is also ignoring that in developing countries there are already very high levels of seropositive people (40% in parts of South Africa) who are already promoting immune escape. Also, his claim that those who don´t develop symptoms are virus-free after a week or two isn´t correct so that the scenario he is afraid of can´t be avoided anyway: It can occur even within one individual patient. The virus sometimes is persisting and mutating (e.g. in the intestines, where it´s less exposed to the immune system) without making you sick. There are patients who have been proven to have developed several variants of the virus. Aprt from that Drosten recently stated that laboratory tests are indicating that the spectrum of meaningful mutations the virus is capable of seems to be quite restricted so that his guess is that the vaccines won´t need to be updated very often (there are already more than 1700 variants registered, but only few of them matter). So to me it seems it´s too early for this kind of fearmongering.
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