What a bunch of muppets

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merchant_banker
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by merchant_banker »

So, the EU order their vaccine 3 months after the UK so what do they do?

They push their way to the front of queue export controls.

Is that what is known as bullying?
The Aquila
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by The Aquila »

Of course it is MB but according to Jim B it’s fine and it’s the UK in the wrong :lol:
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Dominic
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Dominic »

I find it amazing what some of you manage to find funny.

Given that most of you are all of the age that you will be getting any vaccine way before the rest of the population, perhaps you should instead just count your lucky stars that the rest of the population are looking after you first rather than writing you off.
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The Aquila
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by The Aquila »

Being a spring chicken I’ve got a while to wait Dom, but if anyone of more mature years wants to swap places with me I’ll be more than happy to take their place and have whichever jab is available.
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Jimgward
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jimgward »

AZN have agreed to supply at same price to developed countries - about €2.50 per dose - during the pandemic and at same price to underdeveloped for perpetuity,. i.e. non-profit.
There is no doubt that vaccine manufacture is much more prone to problems than thy even anticipated, so even though AZn started manufacture last February, it has fallen behind - AZN is not an expert in vaccine manufacture. There is also a worldwide shortage of glass vials.

Pfiser gave massive deliveries to Israel, but the Eu did not complain.

The EU was slow on ordering and approving vaccines - no doubt.

The UK did a very good job on them - the ONLY thing they have done right during the pandemic.
living the dream
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by living the dream »

An interesting perspective from a respected commercial lawyer with the Radcliffe Chambers.


'The EU's public position is legally unsustainable, and they have made public comments that are demonstrably wrong,' he said.Pulling apart the EU contract, Mr Barrett pointed to section 5.1 as the most damning, saying that it 'clearly shows' the company is only under a 'Best Reasonable Effort' clause to supply the EU - as boss Pascal Soriot has stated.

While section 5.4 does state that factories in the UK are considered to be part of the EU under the terms of the contract, he called this 'a distraction' that 'is not relevant to the EU's point'. This is actually a mildly embarrassing climbdown from the EU, who have a rule that all vaccines used in the EU have to be made in the EU.

'What they have done in that clause is say, for the purposes of this contract, the UK counts as the EU.' But, he added, it does not mean they are entitled to doses made in UK factories (LTD)( and why - WE HAVE LEFT THE EU)

In addition, clause 6.2 of the contract states that 'competing agreements' signed by AstraZeneca might affect the supply of vaccines to the EU. They knew there would be competing agreements,' Mr Barrett said. 'Everyone in the world knew there would be competing agreements. They knew that might mean doses were delayed. I believe the EU is publicly asserting that it now has a right to jump the queue and take doses that belong to other people. That is expressly wrong,' he added.

In other words the EU does not have a legal leg to stand on. Given the bully boy tactics and the export bans employed today by the EU I hope the UK stands firm.
Jimgym
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jimgym »

It just gets worse. The EU sledgehammer is coming down. The European Council is preparing to invoke emergency powers of Article 122 against AstraZeneca and Big Pharma within days.

This nuclear option paves the way for the seizure of intellectual property and data, and arguably direct control over the production process – tantamount to war-time occupation of private companies. This is Europe First pushed to another level. It takes the EU into the territory of 1930s methods and an authoritarian command economy.

Charles Michel, President of the European Council, is being badgered by member states to take action before the escalating vaccine crisis mutates into a political crisis as well and starts to topple governments. He is offering them the most extreme option available in the Lisbon Treaty.

Article 122 allows the EU to take emergency steps “if severe difficulties arise in the supply of certain products”, or “if a Member State is in difficulties or is seriously threatened with severe difficulties caused by natural disasters or exceptional occurrences beyond its control”.

Mr Michel raised the idea in a letter to four prime ministers on Wednesday night. He is now canvassing all 27 leaders. The clear intention is to hold AstraZeneca’s feet to the fire https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... s-spirals/
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Jimgward
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jimgward »

Can’t read on the ToryGraph closed site - but it’s nonsense, what you’ve posted - no way will the Eu take a ‘nuclear’ option - it’s postulating - to cover their arses and look strong... I’m sure you're familiar with that?
Varky
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Varky »

cyprusmax47 wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:34 pm
Varky wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:11 pm Cyprusmax47 says the EU has paid €336M up front to AZ. This, according to news reports is not correct. Only part has been paid. If they had paid in full then perhaps AZ production in the EU would have been able to have been improved.
The EU is demanding that AZ supply the EU from its factory in the UK despite that factory being committed to fulfil its UK contract.
I suggest that you read the contract between EU and AZ which was published today. Many pages are blacked out where it comes to payments etc, however it mentioned clearly 4 delivery sites, two of which are in Britain..... :roll:
Max
OK so there are two factories in UK, but my point remains.
Varky
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Varky »

Jim B wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:34 pm
Varky wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:11 pm What JimB has written is only part of the story.
The contract between AZ and EU is widely reported to state that AZ will 'do its best endeavours' to fulfil the delivery dates.
AZ vaccine has not yet been approved for use in EU. Sources in Germany have incorrectly stated that the AZ is ineffective in those over 65.
Cyprusmax47 says the EU has paid €336M up front to AZ. This, according to news reports is not correct. Only part has been paid. If they had paid in full then perhaps AZ production in the EU would have been able to have been improved.
The EU is demanding that AZ supply the EU from its factory in the UK despite that factory being committed to fulfil its UK contract.
Varky
No part of the story from me.
Germany has not stated the vaccine is ineffective, they have stated that the data provided is not sufficient to evaluate whether it is effective on over sixtyfives which is totally different from what you have written and the German government have reiterated this several times.
Jim
And other sources say that the AZ vaccine is effective in the over 65s. You pays your money and you choose your vaccine.
The Aquila
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by The Aquila »

The EU said that they didn’t want an Irish border but by refusing to send vaccines to NI they have now put one in place.... the gift that just keeps giving 😉
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PhotoLady
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by PhotoLady »

They've done an About Turn on it now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55865539
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Jim B
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jim B »

merchant_banker wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:33 pm So, the EU order their vaccine 3 months after the UK so what do they do?

They push their way to the front of queue export controls.

Is that what is known as bullying?
If you're suggesting that pressurising a company to honour its contractual obligations is bullying then that would apply to 99% of companies who use subcontractors.
No company works on a one contract at a time basis.

There was a phone meeting between Blojo and Ursala Von Der Leyen last night were it was agreed by both parties not to block the export of vaccines that contracts had been signed for. This is what the EU accused the UK government of doing.by putting pressure on AZ to divert vaccines designated for the EU to UK stocks.
Possibly the threat by the EU to implement article 16 focussed a few minds in the UK government hence the joint agreement and the withdrawal of the threat by the EU.
Jimgym
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jimgym »

AZ was and is honouring its contracts, as has been stated time and again there is a clause in the EU contract which states "best reasonable efforts to supply" Where is the evidence that Britain pressured AZ to divert vaccines designated for the EU (who hadn't until yesterday actually approved it)?
As to the frankly laughable threat to implement article 16, it just shows what the EU for what they really are, a tyranny. When in a hole it's best to stop digging, but in the EU's case they hired a JCB instead.
Let's face it, Britain has done an amazing job of getting the vaccine out there, and suddenly all those who slated the Government for not joining the EU's Covid Vaccine Scheme are VERY quiet.
living the dream
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by living the dream »

Apart from JB who seems to think that the EU are still perfect. The EU had no option to do a U Turn as what they were about to put into place was at best immoral and at worst a complete lack of competence & governance. The EU are showing their true colours by resorting to bully boy tactics because of their complete ineptitude to roll out a comprehensive vaccine programme and as a result now resorting to jumping the queue in order to get their hands on vaccine that were paid for well in advance by the UK.

Are these same buffoons going to play the same game with the US now that Moderna have also stated that there is going to be a short fall of vaccine delivered against what was ordered ?? are they going to threaten a US firm with seizure of IP, Data and vaccines - I very much doubt it. The AZ contract is clear and as a renowned Barrister has stated the EU have no leg to stand on. Even Germany and Swiss diplomats have stated the EU's joint vaccine procurement was a complete fiasco reliant on a small number of companies to produce the required doses on behalf of the entire EU then got caught with their pants down as the French Vaccine that was heavily promoted by Macron was an abject failure. The whole EU procurement system was a failure that no one in the EU has the balls to admit to and like any bully now wants to get what it feels it deserves.
Jim B
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jim B »

living the dream wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:09 pm Apart from JB who seems to think that the EU are still perfect. The EU had no option to do a U Turn as what they were about to put into place was at best immoral and at worst a complete lack of competence & governance. The EU are showing their true colours by resorting to bully boy tactics because of their complete ineptitude to roll out a comprehensive vaccine programme and as a result now resorting to jumping the queue in order to get their hands on vaccine that were paid for well in advance by the UK.

Are these same buffoons going to play the same game with the US now that Moderna have also stated that there is going to be a short fall of vaccine delivered against what was ordered ?? are they going to threaten a US firm with seizure of IP, Data and vaccines - I very much doubt it. The AZ contract is clear and as a renowned Barrister has stated the EU have no leg to stand on. Even Germany and Swiss diplomats have stated the EU's joint vaccine procurement was a complete fiasco reliant on a small number of companies to produce the required doses on behalf of the entire EU then got caught with their pants down as the French Vaccine that was heavily promoted by Macron was an abject failure. The whole EU procurement system was a failure that no one in the EU has the balls to admit to and like any bully now wants to get what it feels it deserves.
Unlike you with the UK government I dont believe the EU is perfect but I do believe there are two sides to every story and don't accept without question what is published in the British media like many others on here.
Blojo and his government have been found to be perfidious time and time again but I never see any criticism of the open cronyism towards family, friends and benefactors who've been given billions of pounds by this government. I hesitate to call them Conservatives as old school Conservatives have something this present government dont have, integrity and as said stories doing the rounds that the government pressurised AZ into redirecting the vaccines doesn't surprise me.
I didn't realise there were so many Contract Lawyers on this site.

Jim
living the dream
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by living the dream »

Firstly JB you never accept or look for 2 sides to a story especially when it comes to the EU - your posts are constantly PRO EU come what may, you cannot even see what they have done over the last 24 hours is wrong and has been condemned by other EU Countries ministers and papers and not forgetting the WHO. Secondly I don't just read the UK papers but also enjoy taking snippets from various EU papers.

I don't think for one moment posters on this site think that the UK Government has covered itself in glory with the handling of the pandemic to which you have gloated about on more than one occasion however in many circles Boris has pulled a master stroke in ordering many various vaccines from suppliers during the middle of last year. The same cannot be said about the EU as we have seen their efforts to protect EU Citizens has been an abysmal failure.

You have also now decided to bring your comments from another thread to this thread regarding your view on cronyism - nepotism sits very well within the EU and as far as 11 Billon of contracts go over the last year I suspects this pales into insignificance over the last 40 years of MEP having their snouts in the trough (and I include UK MEPS in that statement). As far as Contract Lawyers been on this site goes I suspect that posters have read various articles circulating regarding a highly respected UK Barrister who has categorically stated that the EU does not have a legal leg to stand on - apart from being a keyboard warrior what qualifies you to dispute a highly regarded barristers comments and brush those off as being irrelevant. AZ is one of there largest pharma companies in the world and not for one minute would I doubt their lawyers abilities to ensure they were not open to litigation should they fail to provide services on time as ordered.

You love the EU so much you cannot see the woods for the trees and the deplorable actions they have undertaken over the last few days. I may not agree with HIC on many things as he will defend the EU come what may and try to dig up any bit of info he can to justify his arguments but I suspect even he has seen the EU at its worst over the last few days, HIC comments on a vaccine thread was Cigs Ciga he intends to keep safe until he gets his vaccine and wishes the same for everyone else - Fair Play I say to HIC.

JB why don't you burn your UK Passport apply for a EU Passport and you can really bang the EU drum as a 100% dedicated European or alternatively change you user name to Krankie No 2 as you both have so much in common
living the dream
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by living the dream »

Obviously the EU has now taken some further legal advice - not only U Turned last night over the Irish Hard Boarder it has now just been reported that they will not stop the delivery of the 3.5m Jabs destined to the UK after the EU was ridiculed over its "Trumpism" plan to divide Ireland. As HIC would say you couldn't make it up
Jim B
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jim B »

Ah!! Back to name calling again I see LTD..and of course burning my passport again, it's getting repetitive. Theres no such thing as a European passport but I'm sure you're well aware of that.
In fact Blojo's government wasn't the only one that have put orders in from multiple vaccine providers, many have done so, even our little island of Cyprus.
As for litigation, I'm sure there are other legal eagles who would disagree with the highly respected Barrister you're quoting
You see the point you can't appear to get your head around is not that I love the EU so much as you suggest, it's that I despise this UK government of corrupt charlatans who I and millions like me believe are leading the country we love to ruin so they can line their pockets. Their party is awash with Russian money, Ministers ignore the Ministerial Code with no re course and others change the law to give a 40 million tax break to a party benefactor and Blojo just laughs it off.
Anyway, sticks and stones and all that.

Jim
living the dream
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Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by living the dream »

You love the UK !!!!!!!!!!! SINCE WHEN - for the last 4 years you have done nothing but slag the UK off for all to see. For the benefit of myself and the rest of Paphos Life members show us just one single EU lawyer that disputes the legitimacy of the AZ contract, show me one single EU lawyer that refutes what the CEO of AZ claimed in his statement regarding the AZ / EU contract. The only people who are questioning the contract are the same people who have made a complete pigs ear of the procurement process for your precious EU.

You say you despise the Tory Government so one can only assume that you are a staunch labour supporter - I seem to remember the last time Labour were in power they all but bankrupted the UK but I suppose that was OK in your book.

You state that Russian money is awash within the Tory party lets just look at how much Russian money has been laundered through Cyprus, most of Ayia Nappa, Limasol and Paphos was built off the back of Russian Money with vast amounts that turned up in suit cases and paid over the counter in many Cypriot banks with no questions asked. I don't need to resort to name calling you make yourself look ridiculous with your posts.
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