What a bunch of muppets

Whatever your political persuasion, defend your corner here. All we ask is that you voice YOUR opinion, rather than just post a link to a half-hour youtube video. Politics can get a bit lively, and if you prefer a less combative debate, please post in the Politics for Moderates section instead.
merchant_banker
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:09 pm

What a bunch of muppets

Post by merchant_banker »

The EU ordered its vaccine supplies 3 months after the UK.

"Whatever the rights and wrongs of Britain’s pandemic response, one thing the Government has certainly got right is vaccine procurement. The same cannot be said for our Continental neighbours. With EU officials now demanding that AstraZeneca provides doses to Europe[/i] from those designated for the UK and ordering a raid on the Belgian production site, James Crisp explains how the bloc got itself into such a mess and why its argument lacks force."

It wants some of the Astra Zenic - it hasn't even got round to approving it for use in the EU.

Thank goodness the UK as been liberated and has regained its sovereignty.

Brussels is pushing for the pharmaceutical giant to make up its shortfall of jabs using its factories in Britain.

What was this about:

"Belgian authorities today confirmed they carried out an inspection of a vaccine factory in the town of Seneffe on instruction from the EU Commission amid tensions between AstraZeneca and the bloc." Sour grapes?
WHL
Posts: 6862
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:43 pm

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by WHL »

:lol: :lol: :lol: Liberated,
The Aquila
Posts: 1066
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:12 am

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by The Aquila »

Sour grapes and bully boy tactics.
User avatar
Princebytor
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:11 pm
Location: Sheffield & Ha Potima

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Princebytor »

A lot of nonsense going on at the moment....................Germans now saying the AZ vaccine doesn't work on the over 65's. They are desperate for the Pfizer vaccine (which they funded) to stay relevant because they know that the cost and ease of use of the AZ Vaccine blows Pfizer out of the water and will make it a commercial dead duck soon.
Sadie
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:47 pm
Location: Polemi

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Sadie »

I find it so sad that they can’t all play nicely 😢
If you never ask the question, the answer will always be....no
Varky
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:44 am
Location: Anarita

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Varky »

Sadie wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:50 pm I find it so sad that they can’t all play nicely 😢
That's the nature of politicians. Common sense goes out the window. Anything to inflate their egos.
Jim B
Posts: 2750
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:42 am

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jim B »

Princebytor wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:43 pm A lot of nonsense going on at the moment....................Germans now saying the AZ vaccine doesn't work on the over 65's. They are desperate for the Pfizer vaccine (which they funded) to stay relevant because they know that the cost and ease of use of the AZ Vaccine blows Pfizer out of the water and will make it a commercial dead duck soon.
These comments are patently untrue, the German government are stating the data provided is not enough to confirm whether it works on over sixtyfives, they are not saying it doesn't work.
Also other posters should really read unbiased press reports instead of the xenophobic right wing press they appear to be getting their information from; the truth is out there if you care to look.
There are many reports available, many eminating from the States , not the EU, that the authorising body cut corners to approve the vaccine whereas the EU have followed normal procedure to reach the approval stage.
Jim
The Aquila
Posts: 1066
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:12 am

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by The Aquila »

The issue behind my comment was not aimed at the Germans and their rules over over the vaccine.

It was aimed at the fact that they are now trying to block the UK’s legal contract with the Belgium vaccine provider!

The UK were quick off the blocks in placing the initial order while the EU were waiting for the French vaccine to be approved. The french vaccine program has now been abandoned and the EU do not like the fact they delayed things and trying bullying tactics to prevent the supply to the UK.
living the dream
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 10:18 am

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by living the dream »

For all the mistakes the UK have made over the Pandemic they have in many cases led the way with regards to the development of vaccines that not only work but are far easier to transport & store, and with another breakthrough in the last 24 hours with the Novavax really does give hope that life can get back to some normality in the near future.

EU was ranting to the UK about protectionism with regards to the future trading relations over Brexit; and because they have been exceptionally slow with their own vaccine programmes are now demanding that AZ hand over vaccines destined for the UK from the Belgium plant and doses manufactured in the UK be handed over to the EU in order to protect EU countries - pot calling kettle black springs to mind especially given the EU ordered the AZ 3 months later than the UK because EU's preferred French vaccine does not work.

According to the 2 main German papers they had only ordered from AZ because the French vaccine which Macron was pushing for was found not to be effective and the Pfizer vaccine supported and financially backed by Germany is 5 x times more expensive and more difficult logistically to roll out.

AZ had orders placed by the UK 3 months in advance of the EU, now because of supply chains issues in Belgium the EU are demanding shortfalls be made up from UK supplies potentially curtailing the efforts made by the UK with our vaccine programme along with threats from the EU of Trade Bans etc if we do not acquiesce to EU demands - EU now showing its true colours.

If for any reason similar to AZ in the production phase of the Moderna Vaccine there are delays and the EU do not receive the 80m doses ordered; will they be demanding that Moderna divert pre-purchased vaccines ordered by the US Government to the EU under the threat of Trade Bans - I very much doubt the EU would go down that road with the USA
Last edited by living the dream on Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jim B
Posts: 2750
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:42 am

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jim B »

The Aquila wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:34 am The issue behind my comment was not aimed at the Germans and their rules over over the vaccine.

It was aimed at the fact that they are now trying to block the UK’s legal contract with the Belgium vaccine provider!

The UK were quick off the blocks in placing the initial order while the EU were waiting for the French vaccine to be approved. The french vaccine program has now been abandoned and the EU do not like the fact they delayed things and trying bullying tactics to prevent the supply to the UK.
If you read my post again you will see the initial response about the German decision was directed at the post that I highlighted in my post.
As I said if you try reading other sources of information rather than the government supporting right wing press, there are many articles suggesting the UK government leaned on AZ to fulfill their contract first, just as you're accusing the EU of doing. This is why the EU is kicking up a fuss, nothing to do with bullying, the bully is the UK government for leaning on the vaccine manufacturer.
Again, as I said, the EU followed procedure and the UK have been accused of cutting corners hence the EU delay in approval, nothing to do with incompetence or procrastinating.

Jim
living the dream
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 10:18 am

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by living the dream »

UK cutting corners - JB you always accuse people who do not agree with your assessments and posts of just reading Right Wing Propaganda by so called Right Wing press publications - it could be easily said that you and others love to follow left wing views especially when it comes to the EU. I took my info directly from the 2 main German Publications who are generally in support of the German Government and the EU.

I do not see in any press publications that the UK are threatening the EU with any form of Trade Bans and given the UK ordered their vaccines 3 months before the EU what gives the EU automatic right to receive their quota in front of the UK especially given the delays in the production of the cultures needed to manufacture the vaccine are in Belgium and Holland and not the UK.

If the UK cut corners as per your assumptions - and the MHRA pushed through the vaccine regardless; which I whole heartedly disagree with; then why is the EU so doggedly determined to enforce Trade Bans on the UK if they cannot receive what they perceive is their god given right to vaccines ear marked for the UK purchased prior to the orders from the EU.
User avatar
Princebytor
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:11 pm
Location: Sheffield & Ha Potima

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Princebytor »

I must admit it's the first time I've been called a right winger.............JB needs to review some of my other posts. Nor am I a rampant brexiteer,far from it.................... but I just think that sometimes the EU with it's 'one size fits all' philosophy is a weakness rather than a strength.
Nothing I said is untrue, Germany did finance the Pfizer, the EU are not prepared to extrapolate the AZ trials data to apply to over 65's (so they are saying in their opinion it doesn't work on the over 65's), the Pfizer vaccine is difficult to handle due to the temperature requirements and costs more than AZ, so eventually the Pfizer vaccine will become sidelined as more vaccines become available.
living the dream
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 10:18 am

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by living the dream »

Im not a betting man but I think I would put money on that the new Novavax will also be cheaper than the Pfizer vaccine per dose as well; especially given it is very much like the AZ vaccine when it comes to transportation and storage. Given the current global shortage of vaccines Pfizer will for the time being keep manufacturing but eventually I agree with other posters that Pfizer will become sidelined
Jim B
Posts: 2750
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:42 am

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jim B »

Gosh, out in force today.
Firstly Princebytor, please point out where I called you right wing. I did say that your comment was incorrect but referred to "OTHER POSTERS" as getting their information from the right wing xenophobic press.
LTD.
I would hazard a guess that you are the only poster on here who reads the German press and I can confirm I dont just read the left wing press but varied publications from around the world.
Again I can't see anywhere I criticised the vaccine rollout but then again with the law of averages the UK government would eventually have to get something right.
If AZ signed a contract to provide X amount of vaccines by a certain date with the EU and failed to meet the contract then they are in breach of contract. It doesn't matter if the contract was three months after the UK or three years before, a contract is a contract. The EU believe the UK government pressurised AZ into redirecting their vaccines, I think they have every right to be peeved if that is the case.

Jim
User avatar
cyprusmax47
Chief Cat Spotter
Posts: 4968
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:10 am
Location: Paphos area since 1982

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by cyprusmax47 »

Jim B wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:29 pm Gosh, out in force today.

If AZ signed a contract to provide X amount of vaccines by a certain date with the EU and failed to meet the contract then they are in breach of contract. It doesn't matter if the contract was three months after the UK or three years before, a contract is a contract. The EU believe the UK government pressurised AZ into redirecting their vaccines, I think they have every right to be peeved if that is the case.

Jim
You are absolute right Jim. The EU has a framework agreement for a total of 400 million vaccine doses from Astrazeneca. So that the funds can be delivered upon approval, the company has been already paid 336 million euros to increase their production. According to the EU reading, it should have produced on stockpile. Now the EU asks: where is the vaccine? .....My knowledge is not guessing, but from watching everyday hours of German News on TV.

Max
Jimgym
Posts: 2429
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:37 am
Location: Paphos

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jimgym »

cyprusmax47 wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:47 pm
Jim B wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:29 pm Gosh, out in force today.

If AZ signed a contract to provide X amount of vaccines by a certain date with the EU and failed to meet the contract then they are in breach of contract. It doesn't matter if the contract was three months after the UK or three years before, a contract is a contract. The EU believe the UK government pressurised AZ into redirecting their vaccines, I think they have every right to be peeved if that is the case.

Jim
You are absolute right Jim. The EU has a framework agreement for a total of 400 million vaccine doses from Astrazeneca. So that the funds can be delivered upon approval, the company has been already paid 336 million euros to increase their production. According to the EU reading, it should have produced on stockpile. Now the EU asks: where is the vaccine? .....My knowledge is not guessing, but from watching everyday hours of German News on TV.

Max
According to AZ there is a clause in the contract stating there will be "best reasonable efforts to supply. This from the contract which has now been published by AZ "However the redacted contract, which does not reveal how much was paid, supports claims made by AstraZeneca boss Pascal Soriot that the business would make the "best reasonable effort" to supply 300m doses, and did not commit the company to a specific timetable for deliveries."

It states that "AstraZeneca has committed to use its Best Reasonable Efforts... to build capacity to manufacture 300 million Doses of the Vaccine, at no profit and no loss to AstraZeneca, at the total cost currently estimated to be [redacted] Euros for distribution within the EU, with an option for the Commission, acting on behalf of the Participating Member States, to order an additional 100 million Doses."
Varky
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:44 am
Location: Anarita

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Varky »

What JimB has written is only part of the story.
The contract between AZ and EU is widely reported to state that AZ will 'do its best endeavours' to fulfil the delivery dates.
AZ vaccine has not yet been approved for use in EU. Sources in Germany have incorrectly stated that the AZ is ineffective in those over 65.

Cyprusmax47 says the EU has paid €336M up front to AZ. This, according to news reports is not correct. Only part has been paid. If they had paid in full then perhaps AZ production in the EU would have been able to have been improved.

The EU is demanding that AZ supply the EU from its factory in the UK despite that factory being committed to fulfil its UK contract.
Jim B
Posts: 2750
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:42 am

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jim B »

Varky wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:11 pm What JimB has written is only part of the story.
The contract between AZ and EU is widely reported to state that AZ will 'do its best endeavours' to fulfil the delivery dates.
AZ vaccine has not yet been approved for use in EU. Sources in Germany have incorrectly stated that the AZ is ineffective in those over 65.

Cyprusmax47 says the EU has paid €336M up front to AZ. This, according to news reports is not correct. Only part has been paid. If they had paid in full then perhaps AZ production in the EU would have been able to have been improved.

The EU is demanding that AZ supply the EU from its factory in the UK despite that factory being committed to fulfil its UK contract.

Varky

No part of the story from me.
Germany has not stated the vaccine is ineffective, they have stated that the data provided is not sufficient to evaluate whether it is effective on over sixtyfives which is totally different from what you have written and the German government have reiterated this several times.

Alan

We will have to wait to see what the EUs response is.

Jim
User avatar
cyprusmax47
Chief Cat Spotter
Posts: 4968
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:10 am
Location: Paphos area since 1982

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by cyprusmax47 »

Varky wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:11 pm

Cyprusmax47 says the EU has paid €336M up front to AZ. This, according to news reports is not correct. Only part has been paid. If they had paid in full then perhaps AZ production in the EU would have been able to have been improved.

The EU is demanding that AZ supply the EU from its factory in the UK despite that factory being committed to fulfil its UK contract.
I suggest that you read the contract between EU and AZ which was published today. Many pages are blacked out where it comes to payments etc, however it mentioned clearly 4 delivery sites, two of which are in Britain..... :roll:

Max
Jimgym
Posts: 2429
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:37 am
Location: Paphos

Re: What a bunch of muppets

Post by Jimgym »

The EU really aren't covering themselves in glory with the absolute mess they are making of this. Shameful and embarrassing. I can only imagine the crowing on here had it been Britain behaving like this.......
Post Reply