The Joy of brexit

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WHL
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by WHL » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:57 am

trevnhil wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:43 am
And if there are so many people out of work in the UK then why don't they have these jobs ??
Here's a clue,,,,,,, Back breaking, long hours, low wages, etc etc .

trevnhil
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by trevnhil » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:08 pm

I would assume that the wage is the minimum wage, and if there are unemployed people that refuse the job then they should not get benefits..
Trev..

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PhotoLady
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by PhotoLady » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:45 pm

This is fruit picking in UK.
Bear in mind the places where the jobs are located makes them not easily accessible by public transport hence why they offer accommodation for which an amount towards electricity may be deducted.
Not everyone who is unemployed has a vehicle.
All things to consider, along with the fact the work is extremely hard and workers may be expected to work up to 12 hours a day, 6 days a week.

You must have driven past the fruit farm Vietnamese and Filipino workers sat in the fields picking in Cyprus.

Read the article and ask yourself if you would take yourselves off benefits for seasonal work, living away from home and then having to wait for 7 weeks without an income while your next payment comes in again.

https://www.hughlowefarms.com/jobs/seasonal-work
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Jim B
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by Jim B » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:16 pm

trevnhil wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:08 pm
I would assume that the wage is the minimum wage, and if there are unemployed people that refuse the job then they should not get benefits..
No Trev , what they should do is make the wages worth while getting out of bed for. If you stop their benefits they will just find another means of getting money.
It's the old adage, you can lead a horse to water and it's the same with people in that you can force them to turn up but you can't force them to do a decent days work. I saw it in the construction industry were the job centres would send labourers who were just a waste of time and money.
I used to work up to 84 hours a week (often more) and was away for four months at a time with two weeks home, these days companies can't get people to do it.

Jim

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Jimgward
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by Jimgward » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:18 pm

Rees-Mogg would love some of the people on here....

Firefly
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by Firefly » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:14 pm

Jim B

By what other means would they be able to obtain money ?

Benefits are far too easily accessed in the UK, the system is greatly abused.

If you are fit to work, then you should, end of.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

The Aquila
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by The Aquila » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:27 pm

Jim B wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:16 pm
trevnhil wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:08 pm
I would assume that the wage is the minimum wage, and if there are unemployed people that refuse the job then they should not get benefits..
No Trev , what they should do is make the wages worth while getting out of bed for. If you stop their benefits they will just find another means of getting money.
It's the old adage, you can lead a horse to water and it's the same with people in that you can force them to turn up but you can't force them to do a decent days work. I saw it in the construction industry were the job centres would send labourers who were just a waste of time and money.
I used to work up to 84 hours a week (often more) and was away for four months at a time with two weeks home, these days companies can't get people to do it.

Jim
The problem is though Jim, the world isn’t a level playing field. Never has been and never will be. Whilst it’s a ideal dream it’ll never happen.

The reason why fruit and veg is priced the way it is is because people from “poorer” countries are happy to do this work because they can earn money to send back for their families and, although not the working conditions we have been privileged to have, can be better than their accommodation back in their own countries. By giving these people these jobs we are effectively improving their own lives even though, I for one, would not want to do the job. However, if push came to shove and I needed to to provide for my family then I wouldn’t hesitate to do so. I have a sneaky feeling that you would be one of the first to complain if the price of spuds doubled overnight.

I had an interesting debate several years ago with a now dearly departed friend who suggested the the reason why many of the youths are like they are today is because of Maggie Thatcher. Whilst she gave opportunity to many she also caused hardship to the work shy, lazy arses which in turn destroyed their own self esteem which has then tricked down to through to the generation we have today. Thankfully the last labour government didn’t give them pay rises through their benefits.

The only way to get these people back to work is to stop giving them benefits if they turn down employment. Have a justice system that that works when they break the law they get punished accordingly.

You any many others here know about the sense of achievement one gets by working hard and reaping the benefits and that’s what’s needed to be instilled into the work shy in the UK.

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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by Jim B » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:31 pm

Firefly wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:14 pm
Jim B

By what other means would they be able to obtain money ?

Benefits are far too easily accessed in the UK, the system is greatly abused.

If you are fit to work, then you should, end of.
Steal it.
How are you going to get them to work Jackie, hang a few, flog them, starve them out?

Jim

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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by Jim B » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:21 pm

The Aquila wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:27 pm
Jim B wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:16 pm
trevnhil wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:08 pm
I would assume that the wage is the minimum wage, and if there are unemployed people that refuse the job then they should not get benefits..
No Trev , what they should do is make the wages worth while getting out of bed for. If you stop their benefits they will just find another means of getting money.
It's the old adage, you can lead a horse to water and it's the same with people in that you can force them to turn up but you can't force them to do a decent days work. I saw it in the construction industry were the job centres would send labourers who were just a waste of time and money.
I used to work up to 84 hours a week (often more) and was away for four months at a time with two weeks home, these days companies can't get people to do it.

Jim
The problem is though Jim, the world isn’t a level playing field. Never has been and never will be. Whilst it’s a ideal dream it’ll never happen.

The reason why fruit and veg is priced the way it is is because people from “poorer” countries are happy to do this work because they can earn money to send back for their families and, although not the working conditions we have been privileged to have, can be better than their accommodation back in their own countries. By giving these people these jobs we are effectively improving their own lives even though, I for one, would not want to do the job. However, if push came to shove and I needed to to provide for my family then I wouldn’t hesitate to do so. I have a sneaky feeling that you would be one of the first to complain if the price of spuds doubled overnight.

I had an interesting debate several years ago with a now dearly departed friend who suggested the the reason why many of the youths are like they are today is because of Maggie Thatcher. Whilst she gave opportunity to many she also caused hardship to the work shy, lazy arses which in turn destroyed their own self esteem which has then tricked down to through to the generation we have today. Thankfully the last labour government didn’t give them pay rises through their benefits.

The only way to get these people back to work is to stop giving them benefits if they turn down employment. Have a justice system that that works when they break the law they get punished accordingly.

You any many others here know about the sense of achievement one gets by working hard and reaping the benefits and that’s what’s needed to be instilled into the work shy in the UK.
Sorry Aquila, I posted to Jackie when you were posting.
They do stop benefits if an unemployed person refuses to take a job, my sister was one of the top bosses at Jobcentre in the North West and told me that was an integral part of getting people to work. The problem was actually getting them to do something when they get there.
I ran work crews usually in the region of 450-500 but sometimes they numbered several thousand and the one thing I realised is that you can't threaten or bully people into working hard. I was caught up in a riot when a Turkish company tried that method and 19 of their Suprvisors were killed.
I know life isn't a level playing field but to get people to work hard you have to give them an incentive, threatening them is a total waste of time.
Oh by the way I dont know the price of potatoes (or anything else for that matter) and if the price doubled I'd still be living in ignorant bliss.

Jim

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PhotoLady
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by PhotoLady » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:31 pm

Does anyone who isn't actually still living in the UK realise just how many people over the age of 50 are currently unemployed?
That's unemployment totally unrelated to Covid.
Do any of you understand that pension ages have been changed? I currently have to wait until I am 66yrs of age to get my Government UK pension.

So, using the fruit picking scenario for example.....
A person claiming unemployment benefit in the middle of UK or in the north of England gets the option to move to the south to take up a seasonal contract.
What does this mean?
1) Benefits cease, no housing being paid for is the first hurdle as the claimant is moving at least 100 miles in the opposite direction after having taken a seasonal job.
2) 4 to 6 months at most working a seasonal contract, living in accommodation and having to give up the place they currently have with help from Universal Credit to cover rent, bills etc.
3) Seasonal contract ceases. No home left to go to and a 7 week wait to be able to claim benefits of any kind.
4) Next step?

No income (or benefits / permanent address) means the person cannot get on the housing market as a private tenant - sleep in a tent on the streets, perhaps?

It's a total Catch 22 situation.

It's perfectly fine for everyone to sit there who happily managed to take early retirement who came from a certain era - but sadly, that is not the way of the world now.
My mum tells me she had umpteen jobs between the age of 15 to 19yrs of age when she had me back in the 1950s because you literally could walk out of one job and straight into another.

And no, "Benefits are far too easily accessed in the UK" - go ahead and try it and let me know how you get on PLEASE.

When we came back to UK we went to our local Job Centre on an appointment. Not one person could tell us what the rules were for anyone in our situation. We had 3 different explanations from 3 different people in that we couldn't have our missing NI payments topped up without having worked for 12 months. There are very few jobs for people of our ages (late 50s and early 60s), we live out on a limb with a crappy public transport system which stops at the wrong time of the evening.
So, we're living on a very small private pension each and whatever is in the bank balance. When that expires, you can damn well bet we will be going to make our claims, if we still need it. Neither of us have taken a single penny from the UK Government in our lifetimes.

Friends of ours returned to UK after us with a son in his late 30s..... he's unable to get work, luckily his parents supported him on return and now he is receiving UC with an offer of a job many months ago but unable to take it up as Covid got in the way.
He isn't even asked to go across the water to attend fortnightly interviews because there are no staff there to see him.

And what I would say to Trevor would be - post the scenario of this thread onto your facebook group page and see what kind of a reaction you receive.

I forgot to add.... monthly rental of private rental accommodation in the north averages at £550pm through a private landlord.
UK minimum wage £8.25 for over 25s based on the average working week of 38hrs - around £330pw less deductions for tax and NI contributions.
Rent, heating, council tax, household insurance etc still has to be paid. Oh, and FOOD.
Don't get me on Zero Hours contracts where an employer can call you on the day and say "don't come in" or send you home after the first hour saying they don't need you.
You don't get paid for any hours you don't work......
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BOB Peyia
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by BOB Peyia » Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:06 am

There is probably a opportunity for seasonal work to be done by persons on benefit.

Something like allowing a person to stay on benefit because it seasonal work say "no more than 8 - 12 weeks working in a 6 month period", with the person paying tax of 50%. this would mean the person on benefit could use the money for a holiday or something, the government get money to offset some of the benefit money being paid.

It probably to simplistic and not enough red tape for it to work

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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by PhotoLady » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:16 am

BOB Peyia wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:06 am
There is probably a opportunity for seasonal work to be done by persons on benefits.

It probably to simplistic and not enough red tape for it to work
It's a good idea but I would think the response would be
similar to the blanket issue of bus passes where many have said they would happily pay a reasonable administration fee to lessen the payout load.... the answer seems to be it would cost more in the administration than the savings coming back from it.

Not much different to getting UK winter fuel allowance and then moving to warmer climates. Does anyone turn around to say no thanks, I don't need it anymore?

There are always measures which can be taken to monitor and minimise outgoings but the initial cost of implementation means it takes time to see a financial benefit. They always want a quick turnaround.
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WHL
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by WHL » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:51 am

Jim B wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:31 pm
Firefly wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:14 pm
Jim B

By what other means would they be able to obtain money ?

Benefits are far too easily accessed in the UK, the system is greatly abused.

If you are fit to work, then you should, end of.
Steal it.
How are you going to get them to work Jackie, hang a few, flog them, starve them out?

Jim

A bit of Floging never hurt anyone :shock:


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Happy in Cyprus
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:23 am

This Times article relates to peeps in the UK. But we in Cyprus can relate to this too.

Your parcel is in the post... for two months, thanks to Brexit
Emily Kent Smith, Sunday February 28 2021, The Sunday Times

"Parcels posted to and from Europe are taking as long as two months to arrive, with delivery companies blaming Brexit. British customers have described waiting up to eight weeks to receive items from countries such as Germany or Holland.

Once deliveries arrive, many are hit with unexpected fees to cover customs charges, additional taxes and courier costs, which can run to more than £100. In some cases, packages have been sent back to Europe and then out again before arriving at their UK destination.

On social media, the courier UPS has been inundated with messages of frustration. In replies, it blames “Brexit disruption”, adding: “Brexit delays are beyond our control.”

John Middleton, 66, from Grimsby, ordered tools from Germany on December 7. His package, delivered by UPS, arrived at the start of February with a bill for £116.91, which covered import VAT, customs duties and brokerage charges.

Ordering from Europe again is now “dead in the water”, Middleton said".

Brexit...the gift that keeps on giving.

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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:30 am

Gove now realises what Brexit has done and wants to fix things. Bit late now Michael, the horse has bolted and the damage is done:

Michael Gove feels the heat as firms spell out unvarnished truth about Brexit
Gabriel Pogrund | Liam Kelly
Sunday February 28 2021, The Sunday Times

Last Thursday, Michael Gove chaired his final behind-closed-doors video call with small and medium-sized business owners, ranging from children’s toy makers to packaging companies, to hear the unvarnished truth about their post-Brexit problems.

It is a mark of the topsy-turvy state of politics that Gove, one of the leading campaigners for Brexit, is increasingly regarded as an ally by those with concerns. According to one attendee, the Cabinet Office minister was at pains to show that he “gets it”, and heard the plight of firms facing sudden bureaucracy and border delays first-hand. The person said: “There was a shift from saying there were teething problems to recognising that there are real issues here.”

Many are more suspicious of the man about to replace him as chair of the Brexit business task force: Lord Frost, who negotiated the UK-EU trade deal last year. Gove, 53, even reassured those present he would still join the next few Cabinet Office Brexit meetings, as Frost, 56, settles into his post. A Whitehall official joked: “It’s a transition period.”

Some 59 days after Britain left the EU’s single market and customs union, the challenge is reconciling the approaches the two men have come to represent: Frost’s “sovereignty-first” Brexit — and a future in which they can trade with Europe without barriers.

The rest of the article, which talks to people directly affected is here: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mich ... d88ef80ee2

Dontcha just love Brexit? It was worth it eh :?

The Aquila
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by The Aquila » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:48 am

Happy in Cyprus wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:23 am
On social media, the courier UPS has been inundated with messages of frustration. In replies, it blames “Brexit disruption”, adding: “Brexit delays are beyond our control.

Brexit...the gift that keeps on giving.
Whilst UPS would like to blame Brexit they are worst performing company that we deal with. Our logistics department in the UK (receiving and dispatching parts and and equipment globally) have been monitoring all couriers.

Imports
UPS are taking on average 14 days to clear customs and have “lost” 32% of the packages.
TNT an average delay of 5 / 7 days and this is down from 10/12 days it was in the beginning
DHL currently 7 days delay.

EU Exports are taking on average 3 days longer than they were with the worst performing country for delays is Netherlands!

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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:16 am

You can always rely on the Express can't you :lol: :lol:

On the day the UK announces that exports to the EU are down 40% over the first two months of 2021, and imports are down 30%, only the Express could could come up with a bo**ocks headline to suggest that the UK was heading for the promised Sunlit Uplands by virtue of a supposed deal with the USA (which curiously is not reported on by any other printed or televised media outlet).

Has anyone noticed how UK foods are getting increasingly hard to buy in Cyprus supermarkets? You'd better get used to it. On ITV News at 10 last night a reporter spoke to a British foods retailer in Athens, who reported on the difficulties, paperwork, delays and additional costs of buying from the UK. He is now proactively looking to buy from elsewhere.

We're experiencing the same difficulties. A parcel which preciously we would have previously paid €80 to bring over from the UK cost us €235 the other day. And when it arrives we are going to have to pay €140 VAT up-front.

Thanks Brexiteers, you'd did a great job in messing things up. And for what? Oh, I forgot, the USA deal just announced in the Express :roll:

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BOB Peyia
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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by BOB Peyia » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:37 am

HIC - What is the gripe non availability of UK foods?
Surly buying imported foods is taking money out of the mouths of local Cypriot producers?

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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by jeba » Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:04 am

Happy in Cyprus wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:16 am
Has anyone noticed how UK foods are getting increasingly hard to buy in Cyprus supermarkets? You'd better get used to it. On ITV News at 10 last night a reporter spoke to a British foods retailer in Athens, who reported on the difficulties, paperwork, delays and additional costs of buying from the UK. He is now proactively looking to buy from elsewhere.
I´m active in a German forum which is heavily populated by Brits residing in Germany. From what they say it´s easy to substitute for purchases they used to make in Britain by ordering from Ireland. According to what I read you should get identical products from there.

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Re: The Joy of brexit

Post by Jimgward » Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:08 am

On Newsnight yesterday, it was stated that we would need 5 trade deals of the size of a US deal, to substitute for the loss of EU deals…

Also, the loss of financial income from London is underestimated and will be massive to the economy. With lockdown, people don’t appreciate how much London will suffer and when the furlough money stops, massive unemployment will ensue.

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