A simple question for Brexiteers...

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Jim B
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Jim B »

I don't think you'll get any replies Lloyd, Leavers will pretend they're just ignoring your posts but really they have no answers to your questions.
As the consequences of Brexit become clearer even to the most dyed in the wool leavers few will hold their hands up and admit they were mislead.

Another claim about the referendum being the the largest democratic vote in history has been disproved, the General Election of 1992 receiving more votes. Going by size of population and number of votes, the referendum voting numbers isn't that special.

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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by PW in Polemi »

As Channel Islanders, my late husband and I had no right to vote on this matter, yet I am being affected by Brexit just as much as other Brits. We were also amazed at how many Brits living in Cyprus and other European countries actually voted for Brexit ... 😲
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Dominic »

Leavers will probably be ignoring HiCs' posts but that is hardly surprising, given their tone. If you make your bed you lie in it.

With regards to the referendum being the largest democratic vote in history, these are the figures:

1992: 33,614,074
2016: 33,551,983

So Jim you are quite right.

What was equally interesting was that in 2016, nearly 28% of the electorate couldn't be bothered to vote. I wonder what the results would have been had that figure been lower...
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Varky »

Happy in Cyprus wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:37 am The red bus featured large of course, (wrongly) claiming savings of £350m a week.
I am not sure but I think the message on the bus was actually "we send £350m a week to the EU" which was correct. However it did not go on to say that of that £350m we got a £175m (approx) rebate.
Misleading, I agree. The devil is in the detail.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by K Turvey »

Happy in Cyprus wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:37 am The World has moved on since the 2016 referendum, which was fought by protagonists Boris and Farage on the basis of so many opportunities which they claimed would arise as a consequence of the UK leaving the EU. The red bus featured large of course, (wrongly) claiming savings of £350m a week which could so easily be channelled lock, stock and barrel back into the NHS. That sum now pales into insignificance compared with the £30bn a year which the government says it is prepared to spend to keep the UK's head above choppy waters.

At the time there were claims about the UK being able to claw back it's sovereignty and make and observe it's own laws - though Cyprus and other EU countries don't seem to have a problem in this regard. There was the suggestion that the UK would be better able to police it's borders and control who was coming in and out. EU workers were villified, though it is easy to overlook the reality that it's largely EU workers who pick crops, provide manpower in social care and hospital environments and stand behind the counters in coffee shops. That's not to belittle the EU's unskilled (and skilled) workforce in the UK, as they undertake valuable work which Brits are unable or unwilling to do, in much the same way as Mexicans do in the southern US states. And if EU workers are in future denied entry by Priti Patel, then workers will have to be sourced from elsewhere on the globe. So, um, what's the point? But to Brexiteers the thought of being able to control borders was reason enough to support a divorce from our nearest, dearest and largest 28 nation partner, with whom we have traded tariff, VAT and duty free for decades.

That's to overlook the inalienable right we Brits have to freely live, study, work and operate a business visa-free in any one of 27 neighbouring states.

Expats in the Remain camp could easily list a dozen disadvantages on a personal level from the UK leaving the EU. Some have made their presence felt already (not least the slump in the pound and decrease in our pensions) and others will impinge harshly from the moment a No Deal comes about. Those of us in business could list any number of additional drawbacks.

But I'm keen to learn from Brexiteers, who by now must feel boxed into a corner with barely a leg to stand on, one or more benefits which they perceive will still arise from the UK's imminent divorce. List them below if you will. Even if you can only manage one or two benefits, I'm keen to know them, 'cos sure as hell, I can't discern any.
Excellent Post for debate

Maybe you can enlighten me by explaining how Brexit will impact you personally being a resident of Cyprus?
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by outasite »

Not a lot of point really, because no matter what replies are made people like yourselves will poo poo them. Much like the members of UK parliament who are hell bent on depriving 17.4 million people their expected outcome. Apart from the ex Communist states who are now member States, name one European country that required us to have a visa to enter that country. Name one EU company that's going to stop trading with the UK, and vice versa. Print the duties that you assume the UK will impose on EU goods. Try not to forget that a huge amount of goods that arrive in the UK from the EU, are from other countries and trans-ship through Rotterdam. Name any medicine that cannot be scourced from outside the EU. I would go on, but there's not a lot of point.
As HiC has harped on since June 2016, the country voted out because of something written on the side of a big red bus, or because the country is sinking under the weight of immigrants, or because they had a much much lower IQ than those who voted remain. So, happy to be regarded as thick as a plank by someone who did not bother to vote in the referendum but who has been so very vocal since then about those who did bother.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Jimgward »

Outasite, you’ve said nothing. I could dispel all your points, but there is not point, you’ve given no facts.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by WHL »

Thats quite long, for a simple question :shock: :lol:
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Jim B »

Outasite
As Jim Ward said it's very easy to dispel every point you put forward but what's the point; your a dyed in the wool leavers and nothing we say is going to change your mind.
I suggested you read up on the Cypriot Bank haircut and possibly you would realise it wasn't all down to the big bad Euopean Central Bank but you never replied or commented.
I could tell you the problems of obtaining visas to travel round European countries with my TCN wife (We will become Third Country Nationals) but it appears you know better than I do so what's the point.
It will be tariffs set by the WTO, not the UK that will determine how much items cost until the UK has signed trade agreements but you again appear to know better so what's the point.
I could go on but it's down to the old adage about leading a horse to water.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by PhotoLady »

Maybe, just maybe in 10 years after a no deal Brexit, they might come up with a couple of answers...
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Dominic »

HiC, I really don't think you can accuse anybody else of making snider comments than you make.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Dominic »

And in terms of benefits, how about being able to abolish the Common Agricultural Policy?

Incidentally, for all of Boris Johnson's perceived idiocy, I can't help but notice that the focus is now on leaving with a deal as opposed to leaving without a deal. The notion of perhaps not leaving at all seems to have run aground. Perhaps that was BJ's plan all along? You can see the same tactic being used by the good people of Ineia, who wanted to put sunbeds on Lara Bay, but would be happy to settle for the next bay along; the one by the restaurant, which was probably what they really wanted to do all along.

One thing I don't want to see is an extension beyond October 31st. For good or bad, just get the bloody thing done. Leave with no deal, leave with a deal, or stay. But decide by Oct 31s. This has run its course now. We all need to get on with whatever happens.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Jimgward »

Dominic wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:05 pm And in terms of benefits, how about being able to abolish the Common Agricultural Policy?

Incidentally, for all of Boris Johnson's perceived idiocy, I can't help but notice that the focus is now on leaving with a deal as opposed to leaving without a deal. The notion of perhaps not leaving at all seems to have run aground. Perhaps that was BJ's plan all along? You can see the same tactic being used by the good people of Ineia, who wanted to put sunbeds on Lara Bay, but would be happy to settle for the next bay along; the one by the restaurant, which was probably what they really wanted to do all along.

One thing I don't want to see is an extension beyond October 31st. For good or bad, just get the bloody thing done. Leave with no deal, leave with a deal, or stay. But decide by Oct 31s. This has run its course now. We all need to get on with whatever happens.
With respect, Dominic, as a non-resident of the UK, you have less to lose. The UK leaving without a deal would be a disaster and if an extension is needed to get a deal, then it has to be taken.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Firefly »

Lloyd

I have chosen not to post much because very recently I lost my dear husband of 45 years.

Do not point the finger when you do not know what is going on in someone else's life. Your usual 'go' at me is not welcome at this time.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Dominic »

Jimgward wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:29 pm
Dominic wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:05 pm And in terms of benefits, how about being able to abolish the Common Agricultural Policy?

Incidentally, for all of Boris Johnson's perceived idiocy, I can't help but notice that the focus is now on leaving with a deal as opposed to leaving without a deal. The notion of perhaps not leaving at all seems to have run aground. Perhaps that was BJ's plan all along? You can see the same tactic being used by the good people of Ineia, who wanted to put sunbeds on Lara Bay, but would be happy to settle for the next bay along; the one by the restaurant, which was probably what they really wanted to do all along.

One thing I don't want to see is an extension beyond October 31st. For good or bad, just get the bloody thing done. Leave with no deal, leave with a deal, or stay. But decide by Oct 31s. This has run its course now. We all need to get on with whatever happens.
With respect, Dominic, as a non-resident of the UK, you have less to lose. The UK leaving without a deal would be a disaster and if an extension is needed to get a deal, then it has to be taken.
No it doesn't. Make the deal now, either the one already on the table or an alternative. And I have family in the UK.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Dominic »

Firefly wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:00 pm Lloyd

I have chosen not to post much because very recently I lost my dear husband of 45 years.

Do not point the finger when you do not know what is going on in someone else's life. Your usual 'go' at me is not welcome at this time.
Sorry for your loss, Firefly. :(
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Jimgym »

So very sorry to read your post, my condolences to you at this awful time. I’m away at present so not posting much. Sad also to see someone making such pathetic digs. About time he grew up.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Jimgym »

Happy in Cyprus wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:45 am
Dominic wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:10 amLeavers will probably be ignoring HiCs' posts but that is hardly surprising, given their tone. If you make your bed you lie in it.

Ah, but they don't ignore my posts, you see. They respond with uniformly snide comments, followed invariably by a Like from Firefly, who has never provided one single justification or benefit arising from Brexit. All she ever does is Like posts from Brexiteers. No proper debate or argument from Leavers, because there are no counter-arguments. Whatsoever.

It is now clear to all that there was, and is, no justification for Brexit; for a break from our closest neighbours and allies; our tried and trusted trading partners of so many decades. The EU which has provided so many benefits, protections and safeguards for both consumer and employee alike.

Over the past three years Brexiteers have rubbished and dismissed as scaremongering the many warnings Remainers gave as to the likely outcome of Brexit. Alongside me, Jimgward and Jim B have been the most vocal and critical.

And now the crows are coming home to roost. Unless a miracle happens, the UK is likely to leave without a deal. After which time the pound will slump, the cost of imports will increase correspondingly and imports and exports to/from the UK will be subject to onerous World Trade tariffs. There will be chaos and delays at ports of entry, shortages of fresh food, medicines and other commoditities and the government has said that it will spend up to £30 billion a year keeping the UK economy afloat. £30 billion!!! What a price to pay for Brexit.

UK residents will in future be treated as Third Country Nationals throughout Europe, with no automatic right to live, work, study and set up business. The UK is split down the middle, even within families. The housing market is stagnant/declining and recession is looming: https://news.sky.com/story/recession-fe ... p-11826101. Many Europeans who work in the UK will return home because they feel no longer welcome in the UK. Their loss will be deeply felt in agriculture, the service sector and hospitals and social care. Who will replace them?

And the government has still to find new trading partners to come anywhere close to replacing the 27 in the EU. And then do deals with them. And who realistically thinks madman Trump has a genuine desire to become an altruistic saviour to the UK? Who'd want to jump into bed with Trump and dance to his tune? And that assumes he's not impeached anytime soon. Just a few days ago he imposed hefty tariffs on a wide range of UK exports to the USA. Some ally, some friend. Not!

So I await one, just one, benefit which will arise from the UK's departure from the EU, to compensate for all the foregoing.

Surely there must be a massive plus which we Remainers have somehow missed out on?
Congratulations on hitting a new low.
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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Jim B »

Jackie

My sincere and heartfelt condolences to both you and your family.

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Re: A simple question for Brexiteers...

Post by Jimgward »

Jackie - sincere heartfelt sympathy, terrible news.
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