Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Jim B » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:39 pm

I would never have imagined why so many sensible people would happily gamble on the future wellbeing of our country without any concern of the possible disastrous consequences.
We'll see when the fat lady sings.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Happy in Cyprus » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:49 pm

In another thread in the TV section I used the expression "shooting yourself in the foot"...and as I did so I nearly made a quip about Brexit.

In this Political section I have many times used the word 'hara-kiri'.

Both terms relate to the shambolic death by a thousand swords going on at the moment.

How major manufacturers, many with critical just-in-time processes, are supposed to make contingency plans in the days remaining escapes me.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Firefly » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:45 pm

Lloyd, forward thinking ? A bit late now.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by living the dream » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:44 pm

It still never ceases to amaze me that certain people on this forum still hold so much faith in the great EU Project and Britain is Doomed, the game is not yet over and the fat lady still has not sang.

George Soros who certain posters love to quote on this forum as being an international finance expert and used his quotes to support the argument that the UK is crazy to have voted to leave the fantastically stable and secure EU has today been quoted as saying" Europe is sleep walking into oblivion and the people of Europe need to wake up before its to late and that Europe could experience the same fate as the Russian collapse in 1991" I personally like this quote from Mr Soros "The current EU Leadership is reminiscent of the Russian Politburo, when the union collapsed they were still issuing orders as if they were still relevant".

Sorry but France is in turmoil, Germany is still breaking EU Financial Rules with financial academics wanting to set up a government wealth fund to protect their industries again breaking with EU Financial aid rules, Italy is still a simmering pot, Poland & Hungary potentially facing financial penalties over immigration, Spain with mass youth unemployment the list goes on. So please can anyone explain to me how the above presents a positive note as to the EU being this wonderful club to be in and how the UK is committing Hari Kari, shooting itself in the foot, a lemming throwing itself off a cliff and any other term used to describe the vote of the 52% who voted to leave were wrong.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Firefly » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:01 pm

Good post.

There will always be those who cannot accept that the UK will survive and indeed prosper after Brexit, as I believe it will, generally remainers who will not accept that they LOST the vote.

The call for another referendum will go on for a while I expect, however, what the remainers have not commented on is that if there were to be another, and the outcome was still leave, would they accept it then, or, God forbid, would they still be harking on about a third ?

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Dominic » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:58 pm

There should only be a second referendum if the situation has changed. The situation will only change once a deal has been struck, or there is going to be no deal.

If either of those criteria are met, and the vote is still leave, then yes, the UK should leave, as that is what the majority of the people who can actually be arsed to vote want.

If a deal has been struck, I don't necessarily think that Remain would win. The prospect of being outside of the EU but with some of the perks might prove quite attractive to a lot of voters, especially those sick of the whole thing. That could be the compromise position that would heal wounds.

If no-deal, then I think remain would have a better chance.
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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Firefly » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:26 pm

Dominic

I appreciate what you say, but I would point out that we voted out, not out if we got a deal from the EU, that doesn't factor into it.

As you say, we are already becoming sick of the whole thing because politicians have done very little to arrange Brexit until now, and it's all panic. Let's just get out, then we can take a deep breath and start from scratch. The deal the EU propose keep us shackled to them in many ways, that isn't what we Brexiteers voted for.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Jimgward » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Jackie - -you speak for 17.4m now? It might not be what you voted for - but I know loads of leavers now wanting to step back and I know very few wanting the nightmare of WTO brexit and the disaster that would entail - like the end of manufacturing cars, the shocking prices rises on food and lack of markets for UK goods, that are suddenly more expensive overnight

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Jim B » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:02 pm

living the dream wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:44 pm
It still never ceases to amaze me that certain people on this forum still hold so much faith in the great EU Project and Britain is Doomed, the game is not yet over and the fat lady still has not sang.

George Soros who certain posters love to quote on this forum as being an international finance expert and used his quotes to support the argument that the UK is crazy to have voted to leave the fantastically stable and secure EU has today been quoted as saying" Europe is sleep walking into oblivion and the people of Europe need to wake up before its to late and that Europe could experience the same fate as the Russian collapse in 1991" I personally like this quote from Mr Soros "The current EU Leadership is reminiscent of the Russian Politburo, when the union collapsed they were still issuing orders as if they were still relevant".

Sorry but France is in turmoil, Germany is still breaking EU Financial Rules with financial academics wanting to set up a government wealth fund to protect their industries again breaking with EU Financial aid rules, Italy is still a simmering pot, Poland & Hungary potentially facing financial penalties over immigration, Spain with mass youth unemployment the list goes on. So please can anyone explain to me how the above presents a positive note as to the EU being this wonderful club to be in and how the UK is committing Hari Kari, shooting itself in the foot, a lemming throwing itself off a cliff and any other term used to describe the vote of the 52% who voted to leave were wrong.
I'm really intrigued how you believe the UK is going to make it on it's own when the service industry which is the UK 's biggest industry is hemeoraging to Dublin, Frankfurt and Amsterdam, we have little heavy engineering industry left and what light engineering we have provides widgets to the auto industry or other assembly lines that are based predominantly in the EU.
And it was 36% of the population, not 52% who voted to leave.
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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Firefly » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:45 pm

JimGW

You know so many, strange, I know non, the only person I have spoken to who has changed their mind voted remain, and after seeing exactly how the EU has treated us, with absolute disdain and contempt, that person now would vote leave.


I am sick of seeing Mrs May grovelling at the door of the EU, in fact it embarrasses me that she does so in my name.

You predict doom and gloom and God knows what else post Brexit (if it ever happens) for the UK, I don't see it that way.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Jimgward » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:55 pm

Jackie, I really, really, hope you are correct and I am 100% wrong - I really do ....

But if it was all looking rosy, I wonder why businesses are now in panic mode, running Brexit risk assessments and stockpiling food and medicines, never mind moving offices, making contingencies and so on.

Mrs May, could be seen, from the other side, as someone who has waited over 2 years to then go into panic mode with no home agreement on anything she agrees to in the EU. It is like a company sending someone with no authority, to negotiate a transaction - the other side knows that it won't be held to and that they are simply wasting their time.

If the country backed no-deal Brexit, they're not telling their elected officials that - the majority of whom oppose such a thing. It seems we are allowing the country to be dictated to by the ERG, that represents maybe 30 - 40 MPs - rather than the rest.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by WHL » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:59 pm

A very simple question,
Will the UK, be a more prosperous place/ better standard of living, outside of Europe or within Europe...

Personally I think the UK will be economically worse off.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Firefly » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:46 pm

Panic Jim, you are absolutely correct, I agree with you.

Mrs May has left it far too late to act on Brexit, of course everyone is in panic mode, they don't know, and neither do we, where will be in six weeks time. We can all see what apparently politicians could not, too little, too late, this should all have been organised months ago.

Firstly Cameron, who threw his toys out of the pram and legged it, failed us. Now Mrs May, who I think has tried to pick up the pieces, is seen to have failed us, so far. No-one can predict the future, we can all speculate, but in truth, no-one knows. Personally I am concerned that we will never leave as I can see Brexit being postponed ad infinitum, I hope to God not.

Jackie
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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Jimgward » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:03 pm

I think May’s mistake was underestimating the opposition in her own party, and even her negotiators!

She should have had a cross-party group, where she would have had the veto, who would then agree and could take it to their parties for endorsement.

I think we will leave, 100%. I shudder at the thought of the damage it could cause with no agreements. We will be worse off - perhaps much worse off. It may recover in many years, but I might not be there!

I believe the ERG politicians are totally self-centrered. I’d even go so far as to call some of them treasonous. They are doing more damage to May, than labour, the SNP, the EU or any others.

I can accept that the EU has played hard ball. It has to. Unfortunately their spokespeople are rude and uncaring. However, the EU is there to represent it’s members, which we are soon not to be - so they can only do the best deal for them.

I think that Corbyn will back May in an adjusted deal, where both have to drop some red lines. I think if the EU sees a united front, then they will bend enough for a deal to be done.

Otherwise, it will be carnage. I have my own business. As does my wife. I contract people to a Finnish company and my does business all over the world. Immediately our costs could increase by 20% for VAT alone - then increases in duties as an external to EU supplier. We would lose work and likely our businesses. That's No exaggeration and hundreds of thousands of other SMEs feel the same. As to large businesses that are foreign owned and do most of their business in the EU - they will collapse their UK operations.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by ApusApus » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:15 pm

Jim B wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:02 pm

And it was 36% of the population, not 52% who voted to leave.
Jim
That's irrelevant, the turnout of those eligible to vote was 72% and out of those 52% voted to leave! https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

Maybe you should be directing your wrath at the 28% that couldn't be bothered to get off their a***s and cast their vote? :lol:


Shane
Last edited by ApusApus on Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by ApusApus » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:25 pm

WHL wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:59 pm
A very simple question,
Will the UK, be a more prosperous place/ better standard of living, outside of Europe or within Europe...

Personally I think the UK will be economically worse off.
Ahhh but here's another simple question ……………………… over what period of time are you considering? For example, <12 months, 2-5 years, 10+ years! If in the long term we become better off then it validates the vote, the only problem is that we don't know what is going to happen in the long term whether we leave the EU or not?


Shane

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by WHL » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:28 pm

ApusApus wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:25 pm
WHL wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:59 pm
A very simple question,
Will the UK, be a more prosperous place/ better standard of living, outside of Europe or within Europe...

Personally I think the UK will be economically worse off.
Ahhh but here's another simple question ……………………… over what period of time are you considering? For example, <12 months, 2-5 years, 10+ years! If in the long term we become better off then it validates the vote, the only problem is that we don't know what is going to happen in the long term whether we leave the EU or not?


Shane
From now on is my answer, I think the UKs standard of living will be below the level, had we remained in the EU.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by outasite » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:28 pm

Looking at all the hoohah in the media, plus her ladyship spouting, I am getting more and more inclined to think that the speech about why we are not leaving after all has already been written.

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Jim B » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:47 pm

ApusApus wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:15 pm
Jim B wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:02 pm

And it was 36% of the population, not 52% who voted to leave.
Jim
That's irrelevant, the turnout of those eligible to vote was 72% and out of those 52% voted to leave! https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

Maybe you should be directing your wrath at the 28% that couldn't be bothered to get off their a***s and cast their vote? :lol:


Shane
It is irrelevant but the truth and I agree with you about those who didn't vote.
My point about not having the Heavy Engineering manufacturing base and knowhow is also true, that's why we are bringing in French, Chinese, Japanese and Korean companies to build Nuclear Power Stations because we haven't got the technical knowledge to do it any more; Thatcher saw to that.
When I started work 99% of the equipment was British on the construction projects I worked on, nowadays we are lucky to see 1%.
Now we only make widgets that go into equipment made by other countries, we don't make the machines that make the widgets any more.
Jim

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Re: Will the Brexiters be moving back to the UK?

Post by Firefly » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:25 pm

Jim B

Mrs Thatcher is to blame again for all the ills that befell the UK, I don't agree, I think you can lay the blame fairly and squarely at the door of the unions of the day.

We lost thousands in revenue because we couldn't make promised delivery dates due to the unions calling workers out on strike, I was there, and I remember in the sixties and seventies one strike after another, that's what crippled our industry. I know some won't like that, but it's the truth. Scargill didn't do too badly out of the miners strike either, not like the work force.

Jackie
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