Yesterday’s UK death rate (as reported, not ONS) showed it was higher than all 27 EU states combined!

[bromerzz]

Doesn't having Covid 19 on the death cert mean no autopsy is required?

[Jimgward]

I do not think that you can rely on any of these figures. There are lots of people who are reporting deaths in their families from all manner of conditions and when it comes to the Death Certs, they are nearly all mentioning Covid 19, which in the majority of those cases mentioned was totally untrue.

Not true. Only confirmed covid tested or covid confirmed by doctor. True figures are based on seasonal differences and are now over 60,000. So a vast underestimate.

[Jim B]

I do not think that you can rely on any of these figures. There are lots of people who are reporting deaths in their families from all manner of conditions and when it comes to the Death Certs, they are nearly all mentioning Covid 19, which in the majority of those cases mentioned was totally untrue.

So the ONS figures that shows there are in excess of over 60,000 deaths over the same period as last year of which a figure of 40,000 plus are being linked to CV19 are unreliable? The statistics show that only two thirds of excess deaths are being directly attributed to CV19.
You can try and white wash the figures any way you want but the death toll is a national failure by this government. Whether a Labour government could have done any better is inmaterial, they are not in power. Other countries look at the leaders of the UK with incredulity on how poorly they've tackled this pandemic.

Jim

[Firefly]

No-one seems to have taken into account the numbers of deaths where the deceased had underlying conditions, over 90% according to the research I did. So I ask, how many of them would have died anyway ? Like it or not, nature takes it's course.

How many people have had it and recovered, that statistic doesn't sell papers, or cause upset. We are even expected to watch TV programmes about this virus, not my cup of tea.

Instead of blaming the government, blame China.

[Devil]

Instead of blaming the government, blame China.

Please be specific why. Just look at the number of deaths in the UK and compare it with the number of deaths in China. When you have done this, please do it again but, this time, take into account the respective populations of the two countries.

[Firefly]

Why ? because that's where it originated, and if China had gone into lockdown immediately, the rest of the world might not have been affected.

And no Devil, I will not do as you say.

[Jim B]

No-one seems to have taken into account the numbers of deaths where the deceased had underlying conditions, over 90% according to the research I did. So I ask, how many of them would have died anyway ? Like it or not, nature takes it's course.

How many people have had it and recovered, that statistic doesn't sell papers, or cause upset. We are even expected to watch TV programmes about this virus, not my cup of tea.

Instead of blaming the government, blame China.

The ONS statistics has taken into account underlying conditions by issuing trendings for several previous years of average deaths. The figure for this year is in excess of 60,000 above the average of which over 40,000 were attributed directly to CV19. That leaves over 20,000 additional unexplained deaths which could or could not be attributed to CV19 or underlying deaths.
The point you appear to miss is that the 60,000 is above the yearly average.
This government is totally incompetent and lies through its teeth and you are supporting that. you can blame China as much as you like but most of the UK problems boil down to how the pandemic was handled by a group of charlatans who ignored medical science and put profit before people.

Jim

[Devil]

Why ? because that's where it originated,

There is absolutely no scientific evidence that the disease started in China. We make an assumption that it did, only because it is there that it became most visible and started to spread. The mutation that caused it could have happened in any country in the world and from any one of numerous reasons.

[Firefly]

Jim

You are as entitled to your views, as am I.

The number of deaths may well be above average for this period, but with respect, this year has not ended yet, far from it, therefore, as I see it, the statistics you quote for 2020 is at best guess work on some-ones part.

I agree that the whole thing could have been handled better than it has been in the UK.

Jackie

[Jim B]

Jackie
I'm quoting the figures to date; that's 60,000 plus extra deaths for the first 5 months of the year, not for the whole of 2020.
And also the figures are not mine, they are from the Office of National Statistics which is a UK Government Department.

Jim

[Firefly]

Jim

I appreciate what you say, but we may find that the normal death rate is lower for the next half of the year. It is possible that Covid 19 took the lives of those who would have passed on anyway this year, just sooner rather than later.

Time will tell.

Jackie

[Firefly]

L.B.

No I'm not, I'm saying that it is a possibility that it may, to some extent, have some truth in it for those who are vulnerable through another medical condition, which would eventually will bring about their demise.

Strange how some people mis-read posts.

[Jim B]

It's also strange how some people misread statistics.

Jim

[Firefly]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics

[Firefly]

L.B.

Nothing else to add except, statistics, which are based on guess work mean nothing. Let's wait until year end, just so we know for sure.

[Jimgward]

The ONS is not guesswork. It is month by month comparisons with the same months in years past. They are credited with being highly accurate. It doesn’t need to wait to a year-end, as they are comparisons in real-time. Waiting simply fudges the disaster that is still unfolding and the allows more mistakes on the catalogue of them that this cabinet and it’s advisers have been responsible for.

[Firefly]

Jim

I don't expect you to consider my posts.

[Uncle D]

I'm saying that it is a possibility that it may, to some extent, have some truth in it for those who are vulnerable through another medical condition, which would eventually will bring about their demise.

I would agree it is a possibility, but I expect some would want to live another 6 months longer and maybe have their loved ones around at the time of their as you put demise.

[Firefly]

David

I quite agree with you.

What pray, is wrong with 'demise' ?

Jackie

[Uncle D]

It just sounds a little bit disrespectful to me